Del Read | From fighting fear to embracing the challenge

In this episode British Canoeing #ShePaddles Ambassador Del Read shares her first experience of kayaking in New Zealand, and how it lead to a life long passion for the sport. Del dives into the importance Kayaking plays on her own mental health, how she uses it to manage anxiety and the importance she places on getting out on the river as much as possible. 

On the 3/4th April Del will be paddling the 5km flat water Nottingham loop for 24 hours straight to raise money for the charity Mind! To find out more and donate CLICK HERE

Find Del on Instagram @del_likes_kayaking

Read Del’s blog - https://delkayaks.co.uk

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram  @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~All photos credit & copyright Del Read~

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond ~

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry

Transcript

India  0:03  
Hello,

India   0:03  
and welcome to the starter ripple podcast. I'm your host India Pearson. And I believe ripples are made when we connect movement with nature, not only for our mind and body, but also the environment to this podcast is a platform for me to chat with inspiring folk who feel the same and have some fascinating stories to tell from their experiences. I hope the conversations that come from this podcast will encourage you to get outside, move, dream big, and see what happens from the referrals you create. Time to introduce my guest. Dell Reed is one of this year's British canoeing she paddles ambassadors as a whitewater kayaker, she spends her free time following the rain travelling all over the UK chasing the rising river levels. Dell also writes about kayaking and paddle sports in her blog, downlights kayaking, she says kayaking is a huge part of my life and happiness. And I have a reputation for being quite a happy person on the water. What I lack in technique I make up for with smiles and enthusiasm. Hi, Dell, thanks so much for joining us on the Start a ripple podcast. Welcome.

Del 1:21  
Thank you very much for having me, India. Oh, it's

India  1:23  
a pleasure. So

India 1:24  
what I want to know is where did your ripples start? If you could tell us a little bit about your background, and how you came to where you are right now?

Del 1:34  
Yeah, absolutely. So I went to New Zealand for a year, I was very lucky at my university, they offered quite a large study abroad programme. And I saw this and thought what a great opportunity. So I had a little look at things and decided that New Zealand's looked like the most awesome place ever. And so went ahead and applied and very luckily Got him. And when I moved to New Zealand, I wanted to make the most of every opportunity that I could. So I tried lots of different activities, one of which was paddling. And I got really, really into it whilst I was there, I was very much a beginner. And it was all very difficult and quite challenging. But there was something about it that just got me really hooked. So when I came back from New Zealand after my year there, I decided that this was something that I wanted to be involved with. And it became very much, you know, my my main hobby, but also everything that my life sort of revolves around now. And when I came back, my mom would say comments to me, like, Oh, you seem really obsessed with this kayaking stuff. And it was an obsession. But I think that's just another word for a passion that I hadn't realised I had until I had that opportunity to get started. And then the last six years, I've just been focusing on trying to get better, and hopefully match my skill level to my level of enthusiasm. We're still working on that one. But it's lots of good fun. And I've got very involved in lots of different things along the way. I love that.

India  3:11  
And I think I've seen it written on your Instagram, you say what you lack in technique, you gain enthusiasm and, and smiles or something along those lines. And I think it's so true. If you haven't got enthusiasm, then what's the point in doing anything? Right? Now, I actually had a very similar experience at university, I went out to Sweden, to study dance, and had an amazing time, right. But I thought I was going out there to study dance. And it turns out, I was actually going out there to find myself, you know, I came back a very different person, I gained so much confidence. And I wonder if you had a similar experience when you went out to New Zealand?

Del  3:52  
Yeah, absolutely. And I think most people would, whether that's living abroad, or taking on a very big life change, and I completely agree you are very different person, from when you come back from that experience than from when you started that experience. And that doesn't necessarily mean a better person, but you've changed in ways that then affect the rest of your life. I think for me, when they you know, talked about it in one of my lectures and said, oh, by the way, we're doing a talk about going abroad and studying abroad. everyone around you goes, Oh, wow, wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't it be really cool to spend a year in Australia or go to America or you know, all the other places that they had listed? But then a lot less people went to the actual talk and a lot less people applied? And there was something about it, and I just thought I had a few worries about going abroad, but all of my worries just seems so disproportionately small compared to the well what if I didn't go What would I potentially be saying no to and it just seemed like the obvious choice to apply and then it was quite a tough process to get through. But when I got into it and got accepted, I was just so happy. And actually, it's it is a big step to move halfway around the world, it's New Zealand, for me, it's as far as you can get from the UK. So it's not as if I could move there and something goes wrong. And I go, you know, call mom, I'm going to come home for the weekend, it's all gone wrong, there's, there's none of that you have to just be completely independent. And so going there, it definitely made me be a lot more independent about my choices. And if I wanted to do something, if I wanted to take an opportunity, even if I didn't know anybody else, taking that opportunity, I'd go ahead and do it anyway. And that's kind of what how I got really involved with the paddling is there were lots of opportunities to try all these amazing outdoor sports. And in New Zealand, there's a very big outdoor culture there. So the university clubs, I think the five biggest clubs at the university were all outdoor adventure sports. So there's a whole culture of people wanting to go away on adventures at the weekends. And so having that confidence to just say, Yes, I'm going to go away this weekend. And I don't know anybody, but that's fine, because I'll make friends. And I don't know what I'm doing. But that's fine. I'll have a go anyway. So yeah, definitely built my confidence. And I hope I brought that back when I moved back to the UK as well. And I continued with that mindset of, if I want to try something, if I want to have a go at something that might otherwise scare me, I'm just going to go for anyway. And take those opportunities that life presents to you without the fear, I suppose of the unknown holding you back.

India  6:44  
Oh, yeah. And I couldn't agree more. And it's one of the reasons why I always recommend to people to solo travel at least once in their life, because from my experience, it's such a liberating feeling going somewhere, and not having to compromise with anybody else on that trip, you know, just doing whatever feels your soul. And, obviously, obviously, for you that led you to find kayaking, which is now now your passion. Now, I'm always really interested to hear from people's first experience in a sport or something that they are now quite expert in. Because I think it can be really intimidating seeing somebody, you know, looking amazing at what they do and very, can be very easy to forget that they were a beginner once you know we were all beginners once. So if you could share the story of your first time on a kayak with this,

Del  7:40  
I suppose it almost splits into two experiences. So most clubs, and I was associated with Auckland University, Canoe Club, most clubs will run pool sessions. And this is often how they'll introduce beginners, you know, in a safe environment, the swimming pool, and Auckland had such a huge network of people, there was a lot of students, but also a lot of internationals. It's a very international city. So you'd have like hundreds of people literally coming in these taster sessions. And so the very first session I went to, they had to split us in half and say half of you have half the session on the water. And then you swap. Because there's so many people and everybody sort of battling to try and get in a kayak and have a go, I didn't really know what I was doing. So even at the beginning, like putting your spray skirt on, which keeps you inside your kayak, I had no idea which way to put it on. And it seems so obvious now. But at the time, I'm sort of looking to my left and my right and go, Oh, how do I do this? You know, does it go on upside down? Do I turn it round. And eventually I worked out with a little bit of assistance and put it onto my kayak. But then again, getting on to the water, I didn't know which way to hold my paddles. So that first initial experience was very, almost design, I didn't have a clue what I was doing. And even in that really controlled environment of the pool. I couldn't keep it in a straight line I was going around in circles. But it was it was a lot of fun. It was something very exciting about it. And in those first experiences, they always get you to do like a swim test in the pool to check that you can safely accept your kayak and also to have a go at sort of holding your breath upside down so you don't get worried or anxious when you go underwater, which is a big part of it. So going upside down and then you hold your breath for as long as you can walk the sides of your kayak and someone calls you up right or you have to swim. And actually one of the times I did it in that controlled way it's fine. But one of the times I did it I just fallen over accidentally and was very unexpectedly upside down and it felt like I was trapped in my car and that's a really nervous thing and I got out absolutely fine once I stopped panicking, but it is definitely a big adrenaline rush. So that was sort of my first experience in the pool. And then I was quite lucky in that they get a lot of beginner trips. And so they'd have hundreds of people coming on these trips for some of the bigger ones. And the first trip I went on, we went away for the weekend, to a really, really rural river, it was in incredibly remote, we were camping, had a couple of days on the water. And it was just one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. It was so gorgeous, you know, there's no trace of humanity at all, you're just on the water completely at ease. And it was a mixture of, you know, these moments of Wow, I can't believe I'm here in the middle of New Zealand. It's so beautiful. It's so gorgeous. But then also, it wasn't a particularly challenging river, it was maximum grade one, grade two, so little ripples on some of the corners and so on. But when those ripples came in, they felt like I was oh my goodness. So I'm going to go over you know, is the most terrifying experience and you're on beginner trips it there is a lot of carnage. So left, right and centre, there's people capsizing swimming out their kayaks, and you know, it's a safe environment. And none of the more experienced paddlers are worried. They're just that they're having a bit of a laugh as they wrote people to the side help you empty your kayak and try again. But at the time, we just like I really don't want to go upside down, that seems so scary. And then you do it, and it's fine. But yeah, that was my first sort of main trip, it was just being in this amazing environment, but also having a lot of fear. Which I didn't realise at the time, but it's actually sort of a part of kayaking, really, and I guess for most adventure sports, it's a part of the adventure sport is the fear. And it's not so much that when you get better at hiking, you stop being scared, it's just that your skill set matches the environment you're in. And it is something I hadn't experienced before. It's sort of type one and type two fun of actually you can really not enjoy when you're going down that rapid. But then afterwards, you're elated that you've got down it and you had that experience. And I hadn't had that kind of experience before. And it's actually a massive part now of my own experience.

India  12:22  
So let me get this right. type one fun is when you're enjoying it in the moment. And type two is when you enjoy it after,

Del  12:32  
though you can enjoy yourself sort of in that primary moment. But a lot of the times, especially if it's an environment where you're being pushed, you might just hold off that enjoyment till after it's over. And I think you're so focused in the moment, you're almost at least for myself, and I know this is the same for a lot of people, it's hard to enjoy in that exact moment. But afterwards, you're really happy. And yeah, feeling to describe, but I think it just comes down to one I am in a pushy environment, almost my nerves take away some of that enjoyment. And if I'm in a more relaxed environment or environment, I'm more used to I can certainly enjoy in the moment a lot more. But when I'm in a pushy environment, whether that was as a beginner on grade two, or now on much harder rapids. Some of that enjoyment does almost have to wait until after the rapid has finished. And then you have a big rush. You know how however it went, you have a big rush that you've completed it. And that's a really nice feeling as well. Even if I felt very scared.

India  13:40  
I find this subject so fascinating, because yeah, I can totally relate this this winter, I've started wild swimming. And

India  13:49  
I, I

India  13:50  
can't I really can't admit to enjoying the before part, you know that going in the build up. I don't particularly enjoy being in the freezing cold water. But what I love is that feeling I get afterwards when I'm sat on a beach with a cup of tea or I'm back home have had a hot shower. That's when the fun starts. That's when I begin to feel really elated. And the reason I go back for more and compared to when I practice yoga, where I'm very much having fun and enjoying it in the moment. So yeah, thanks so much for sharing your perspective on that. And so let's get back to the kayaking. You, you you would have returned to the UK obviously. How did you find that? That sort of switch of Crikey New Zealand to returning to the UK and how are we able to continue continue to sport on home turf?

Del 14:43  
Yeah, so when I moved back to the UK, I was quite lucky and I moved back to Nottingham which unbeknown to me at the start of my adventure in kayaking is actually a hub for kayak is in the UK. So we have home peerpoint which is the National water sports centre. And it's got a really good whitewater course a lot of people come to the course to get better at freestyle. So I had no idea that this was about 15 minutes away from where I was actually living in the university area. And when I came back, I just decided that I didn't care how much effort it took, I wanted to get better at paddling. So I got involved with the university club, but very quickly made some really good friends who were quite happy to look after me really helped me sort of improve my skills. And I'd go down to the whitewater course, a couple of times a week. And I was just so, so bad at it. I mean, I think obviously, as a beginner, most people are, but there was nothing I found instinctive about paddling. But it was just one of those things of every time I swam, my friends would fish me out, and I'd get back in and try again. And eventually, I stopped swimming at the course. And I started to actually progress my skills. And I only stayed in Nottingham for a year. And then I moved away, but I carried on as much as I could, paddling in all my free time. So it, it becomes and I think this is probably quite common for anyone who does paddling in the UK, because the rivers are so rain dependent, it becomes my whole sort of social calendar is focused on kayaking. So because you have often no idea when the rivers might come up, when the rain might affect things and allow you to go kayaking, I'm always very reluctant to make any kind of social plans, in case it gets in the way of kayaking. And so it did become sort of my absolute passion. And every weekend I would go, I wasn't able to get over to the whitewater course, is often I've actually moved back to Nottingham now on, I'm actually working a lot more again, on a daily basis rather than just at weekends. But it was after I started spending a lot more time at the weekends, and also the whitewater course, again, that I realised sort of how close knit the community in kayaking is in the UK. So because there's a large enough number that you can always meet new people. But also the numbers are small enough that you see those old faces quite regularly. It's a really nice way to actually make lots of friends within the sports. And it feels much closer I feel than perhaps other largest sports. And that for me is something that I found quite motivating as well as how close to community was. Because every time I went kayaking, I was just meeting friends and making new friends, which was a big part of it as well. So yeah, yeah,

India  17:44  
I mean, I think community plays a huge part in what we do. It's why I started phenom flow because I wanted to create a hub for like minded people to come together who enjoy yoga and paddleboarding. And, you know, you've now found friends who understand why you have to keep your weekends free, just in case it rains. And speaking of rain, I'm really interested in how nature plays a part in the way we exercise. And you're talking about sort of chasing the rainfall and stuff, how do you incorporate nature into the way that you keep Fit Bit by kayaking, or any other ways that you keep fit on a general basis?

Del  18:30  
Yeah, well, I suppose I do all of my exercise, outdoors. So I've never been someone who's a bit of a gym goer or anything, it's always been either on the water paddling or going running or going hiking. So I spend a lot of time outdoors. And I think particularly as you say, with kayaking, it's such a rain dependent sport, and very dependent on the weather doing what you want it to. And in that regard, I think I'm a little bit unusual in that most people get really upset when it rains. And I just get, you know, ridiculously happy every time it rains. But you have to kind of respect what it's doing as well. So you could put all of your sort of hopes on going kayaking at the weekend because it's forecast to rain. And then when you check the river apps and the forecast again at four in the morning, on a Saturday realise that it's not going to happen and actually you just have to accept that unfortunately, that's part of your sports. But also as well and in the UK in the last couple of years we've had huge levels of rain and there's been lots of flooding that's obviously caused a lot of damage in distress for people. But in kayaking is quite impressive because you you go to these rivers needing them to come up needing rain for them to run and sometimes find that not only as they're being rained for them to run, but there's so much rain that they are now very, very much not runnable or even if you perhaps have the skill set for certain rivers that It's not appropriate to run it because the area that those rivers are in a very flooded. And that would be a little bit disrespectful to those communities and so on. And you just have to respect that, you know, whilst nature is you like, is a big part of my happiness and contributes to me being able to do the sport I love, it's also very much in control of the sport I love. And there's nothing I can do about it. If we get to the river and it's too high, then those are the days that you do just have to walk away, unfortunately, and sometimes not just walk away to another river, but just not go kayaking at all.

India  20:39  
Because it makes those times when your schedule and nature schedule align even more beautiful, because you can't pick and choose, you know, those times you go.

Del  20:50  
Yeah, absolutely. And obviously, you can go with the whitewater courses and so on. But even in Nottingham, the whitewater course it floods out for a lot of winter. So you can't go because the river trends too high. But it is amazing. When I think of how many weekends I've got whitewater kayaking over the last five years, considering that had to be rain levels coming in river levels coming in at the right time because of rain levels happening at the right time. And also lines up with my weekends. And there's nothing more frustrating than, you know, having to go to work and realising as you're checking rain levels, that it would be the perfect kayaking day. I suppose in some ways, it's nice because most people work and therefore nobody's going kayaking, so you don't feel like you're missing out too much. And like you say, it makes it on the days where it doesn't work out feel very special.

India  21:45  
Yeah, and it's really great to hear how kayaking has affected your your physical health, but I'm also really interested to know how has affected your mental health, you know, that that whole idea that we're outdoors kayaking, how does that play an impact on your mental health? I know you said that you started the sport in a swimming pool. And then you developed your love for it when you go outside on the river. And has there been times as well when you haven't been able to get outdoors on a kayak and how has that affected your mental health too.

Del  22:16  
Absolutely. And I think for me, that's one of my motivations to go kayaking is it's not just paddling isn't just something that affects my mental health. But it really sort of is everything about my mental health. So I am somebody who can overthink, I can get quite anxious about things and sort of my day to day life, get quite worried by things and particularly the last year, I would say that my mental health has taken a bit of a dip, because of the situation we find ourselves in. And I'd be surprised if most people's mental health hasn't been affected. But paddling for me is just it's a massive relief. It's a time away from those things, whether it's stress relief, or just relief from my overthinking mind. And I think in part of it is that being in nature being away from everything, and when you're going down the river, particularly if it's only you and or you and one other person, it does feel very remote. So even going down the river trend of which I've done a lot because it's my local river in the last year, even going down the Trent which is perhaps going through the middle of Nottingham city, you're still in the middle of this huge river and still very far away from people. So that's a really lovely feeling. And it's also for me, it's a very mindful activity. So part of the reason I love whitewater is you have to be so focused on the moment that you know, you're focusing on getting the moves right. So you make the next Eddy you get down this rapid you're choosing your lines that you just can't think about anything else. And for me, that's the perfect sort of looking after my mental health because it allows me just to escape my thoughts for the day is meditation isn't it really is it's a perfect form of meditation is a perfect mindful activity. But at the moment, obviously, we can't go whitewater kayaking, and Nottingham's been in at least here free since October. So it's been a good few months now where we've not been able to go anywhere. But even just doing a lot of Blackwater, for me has so many benefits. So perhaps I'm not focusing in the same way but I'm trying to focus on my paddling technique, for example. And just that getting outdoors getting on the water makes such a difference to my well being. And when I can't do it, I really do notice the effects. So in that first lockdown where we couldn't paddle or if things have been really busy at work, and perhaps I've not gone for a couple of weeks, and I know myself well enough now that unless there's a real reason for it. I know it's not worth skipping out on kayaking, because it has such a negative effect. on everything, my mental well being my physical well being that it's better just to prioritise it. It has been very cold the last couple of weeks and we've had quite a lot of bemused looks working our way down the river and having to break the ice and so on, but it's still worth it.

India  25:18  
Yeah. Now, this brings us on very nicely to your fundraiser that you've got coming up. You're raising money for the charity mind by doing a kayaking challenge. Could you tell us a little bit more about this challenge and why you wanted to raise money for my charity.

Del  25:38  
So just before Christmas, my friend, James Ibbotson messaged me and said, Do you fancy a challenge? And I was just like, Yeah, sure. Okay. Oh, wait, tell me what it is. So he suggested that we trained to do a 24 hour flatwater water paddling challenge on the river trend, we're doing something called the trend loop, which is a 15 kilometre loop going down the river back up on the canal. And doing that continually, continuously for 24 hours to raise money for mine. So doing it's a bit of a fundraiser. And I think for both of us, mental health is very, very important. And I've spoken about sort of my own difficulties, particularly with anxiety this year. And looking after my mental health is so important. And I realised that in this sort of current climate, there's a lot of people whose mental health really isn't a good way right now. And so we wanted to do something that was positive, that was contributing in a positive way, but also very importantly, you know, keeping it local. And so this challenge that we're doing in it's at the end of March 27 28th March, and to raise money for mind, is a way that we thought we could make that positive contribution. And it's worked out really well is well, actually in that, for me, it's been something to focus on, for the last two months and for the next five weeks, until the challenge happens, that I've not had time to be anxious about the situation. So I'm focusing so much on training for this challenge. So that I make it through the 24 hours. And, you know, hopefully one piece that, for me, that's really helped with my mental health as well. So, yeah, it's happening at the end of March. Yeah. If anyone's on the Nottingham Trent, at that time, on that weekend, or is you know, walking on the canal with families do just give us a wave or be the four very tired looking whitewater paddlers.

India  27:49  
24 hours is a very long time. Now, obviously, being out on the water for that long, you're going to have a newfound appreciation for your environment. And I know that the more time that I've spent on a paddleboard, the more connected I've been to the environment, you know, I've noticed more litter and I've wanted to protect it even more, you know, who wants to paddle somewhere where there's litter floating everywhere? And so I'm interested to know, if you have had this, this, this happened to you as well, and, and how do you go about, you know, protecting the environment that that you want to paddle in.

Del  28:32  
So I think it would be very hard to not be involved in nature and for so much of your time and for so much of your life without having a greater awareness of, of nature, but also of your impact on what's going on. And I think paddlers are generally quite good about being respectful. On the river, they're a lot more aware about sort of not leaving litter, picking bits and bobs up. But also being respectful. I think, for me, a big one is being respectful of for communities that you're going to as well. So, for example, when we go to whitewater rivers, it's often in very remote places. And just things like being mindful about where you're parking. If there's a little car park where they want you to pay a couple of pounds, parking fees in the village that you're in, then go and use the car park and pay those parking fees don't park up on the verge and potentially, you know, struck destroy the banks in the villages. When you're getting on on the river. Just being mindful that you're getting on appropriately. You're not, you know, destroying the banks or destroying anything or trespassing land when you're getting on and just being very mindful about the places that you're going to. And I think just as long as you are respectful, that works really well and actually there's some lovely places one of my favourite rivers is the river Italian South Wales. And there's a man who lives in one of the houses there that is literally right next to the get off. And he really loves kayak is and he always wants to come over. I've met him a few times, and he just wants to have a chat, and actually taking the time to have a chat and talk about him and talk about what you're doing. It makes that sort of positive connections, those positive relationships, which are really important. And one of my friends who's actually doing the paddling challenge, he's geography student at Nottingham, his very, very mindful about sort of litter in the environment. And for the last however many weeks now, every Sunday, he just goes on the section that we're doing for this 24 hour paddle. And he spends the entire day, filling a canoe with rubbish from the canal. And actually, last weekend, so this is my friend, Matt, they managed to pick out 16 bags were full of rubbish in one day.

India 30:56  
16 bags

Del  30:58  
yeah, 16 bag, which is amazing. They're very, very, you know, determined to make that difference. And obviously, most of us aren't quite on that scale of amazingness. But just small contributions can make a big difference. And actually, his, his way of describing it is when he was doing that litter pick, when he's doing it every week, the response he's getting from the people who live on the canal boats, or the local people walking their dogs by the canal path is really, really positive. And there a lot of thanks for actually trying to make a difference and improve that area that he's using. Oh, yeah, I'm

India 31:34  
really happy that you've brought up that subject of respecting communities actually, as much as it's important to respect the environment, we also need to respect the people that live around the places that where we're moving in, you know, we all want to change up how we exercise by doing it in different parts of the country or the world even. But we need to respect the fact that we're going into people's homes where they live. And so obviously, you set your bar very high by starting your kayaking experience in New Zealand. But is there anywhere else in the world that you would like to kayak?

Del  32:12  
Me, I do really want to go back to New Zealand, I planned a trip over Christmas this year. But COVID got in the way of some of those plans. So it's hard to being put on hold. And part reason I want to go back to New Zealand is it was absolutely gorgeous. And I have paddled there before, but my paddling there was so limited by my skill set, that I feel like swimming down the grey two rivers of New Zealand was not quite the same as paddling some of the best rivers of New Zealand. So I really want to go back and experience it with a little bit more skill set to actually enjoy it. And also to see my friends, because there are people there who were very good kayakers, who helped me in those early days when I was a beginner, and I want to go back and actually had with them again, in a more balanced relationship, shall we say on the river, which isn't just them fishing me out. And other than New Zealand, another one I'd really love to do is just a few more actual European trips, because so I'm a teacher, and my holidays are great. However, they're very, very fixed. And there's a lot of classic trips that British car cars will go on. So they'll go to various outstrips. And because it is so dependent on the time of year when these rivers will be flowing, that is usually a time of year where I can't take time off work. And so I'd love to at some point, perhaps just have an extended break or something and actually Pad A lot of these sort of European classics that I've not yet got to experience. And I'm very lucky and I have I have gone to a new place. I've gone to Norway and Austria but even just a French French Alps trip is something that I would really love to do at some point because I feel like most British hikers have experienced that. And I almost feel like I've missed out a little bit. I want to go back and have that experience.

India  34:17  
You'll have to organise a school trip to go out there. At that time. Take away the kids with you. So you do so much work inspiring and motivating others to get into the sport of kayaking. You know your sheep huddles, Ambassador for British canoeing, that's how we met. And you've also got a blog del lights kayaking, and so could you tell us a little bit about the blog and how you came to start it because it's a fantastic read.

Del  34:48  
So at the start of the first lockdown, it's something I'd wanted to do for a while I've wanted to write and share my ideas that are perhaps a little bit more formally for a while but at the start below. lockdown, I suddenly found I had a huge amount of time. And actually, I could put those plans into motion. So having wanted to do it for quite a long time, I really got started and just sort of threw myself into it. And for me, I write my blog because I enjoy it. And I enjoy sharing my opinions, and I enjoy sharing stories. And I honestly didn't think very many people would read it, I thought, perhaps my dad would read it. And that might be it. But that was the time because it was something I enjoyed doing. And actually, the more I was writing, the more positive response I was getting back. And it wasn't just from friends who were very encouraging, but also people that perhaps I had never met before, who were finding my blog and reading articles and getting in contact and actually going through some of my different articles, they would respond for a variety of reasons. So it might be that something just really resonated with them. And they wanted to share the fact that thank you for saying you've had this experience or you feel this way, I feel this way, too, it's really great to hear that I'm not alone. Sometimes some of them would be perhaps something I've really struggled with. And it's taken me a while to find a solution to those struggles, people get in contact and say, well, thank you for sharing that, because that's actually really helped me. And that was something that was really nice to hear. So there was one article in particular I wrote called negative thoughts and how to deal with them on the water. And I didn't think anything of it at the time. But I've had so much response from that article of people saying, This is me, I have these sports, this is an issue that I have. And actually hearing that some of my suggestions have helped them was something really nice. And it's quite a response as well, actually from different people. So bearing in mind that obviously, as part of the she paddles programme, that this is the reason it was set up. But there is less women in paddlesports than there are men. But I actually have just over more women reading my blog than I do men. And a lot of the people who get in contact are women. And so I don't know if it's just that it happens to be those women have experienced those problems that I've been speaking about in my blog, or what, what the reason is, but it is nice to think that actually, it's making a positive difference in terms of female paddlers as well.

India  37:50  
Which I think,

India  37:52  
yeah, I think it's, it's really important to be able to see people doing what you want to do. It gives you a lot of risk reassurance. And if you're bringing up subjects in your blog that people can relate to, it just makes them feel like you know, they're not alone. And there's other people experiencing it too.

Del  38:13  
Absolutely. And it's nice to think that hopefully it has helped someone. So you know whether a lot of people just read it and say, Oh, that was a nice article, or wherever lots of people are reading it and actually taking away things. But it's nice from those people who've got in contact to know that it definitely has helped someone. And that's obviously part of the reason why you and me both signed up to be shout she paddles ambassadors because we wanted to be able to help other women within the sport in particular, but other people as well, in general.

India  38:47  
Yeah, I

India  38:47  
mean, I wonder how many women you'll get

India  38:49  
signing

India  38:50  
up to do a 24 hour kayaking challenge after you've done it, and they've read about it. And now earlier on, we were talking about nature, and how wonderful it can be for the mind and the body. But it's also important to remember that nature is a powerful beast, and we have to respect it and be really, really careful. Have you had any experiences where maybe you've undone estimated the power of nature, and you've realised how big and maybe a little scary it can be sometimes. And yeah, I'm just interested to know if you've got any stories around that.

Del  39:27  
I think the more experience you have, the easier it gets to make very informed, safe decisions. And obviously, you know, when you're early on, you might have less experience and you might have more of those experiences and then you learn from them and you make better decisions later on. But there are certainly days where things are perhaps not gone to plan and it's not something that you can almost always plan for. And it is an adventure sport for a reason. So you There might be a lot of rain, the rivers quite high. And you make that decision to get on. Because you feel like you're paddling is in a good place. And you're confident that, you know, you can achieve what's needed today. And I've never had anything, you know, truly awful. But I've definitely had days where I've come off and fought, well, was it the right decision to get on? You know, perhaps I've had a swim, or I felt just very uncomfortable, because it's been so pushy. And I can be quite hard on myself as well. And so I'm always trying to second guess, or at least, this is something that I'm trying to work on. But it is a trait that I have that I'm trying to second guess of, did I make the right decision? And I think hindsight is obviously 2020. Now you can have a bad experience and say, Oh, well, I should have known because of A, B and C. But actually, you just add that to your experience bank. And then the next time you're in that situation, you might make a different decision. But you can you can't control from everything. So as long as you're mindful about the decisions that you're making, and also the effects it has on other people. I think you've just got to go with the experience you have and if you're not sure the experience of others as well. And if you're really not sure, it's probably best to walk away at that point.