Martin Dorey | From Eco Worrier to Eco Warrior

Meet Martin Dorey – a multi-faceted individual, blending the roles of writer, surfer, environmentalist, and avid camper van enthusiast.

As the founder of the 2 Minute Foundation, Martin is on a mission to combat ocean pollution, one small action at a time. His dedication to cleaning up our seas has earned him widespread acclaim and admiration and in 2023 he was awarded an MBE for his commitment to the environment and recycling. Additionally, Martin's authored 'best-selling' travel series, chronicling the joys of slow travel in a camper van, has captivated audiences worldwide.

In this episode, Martin shares his love for nature and outdoor activities, including surfing and camping. He discusses how he overcame an injury and adapted his active lifestyle. Martin also explains how spending time in nature can inspire people to protect the environment. He shares the story behind the Two Minute Beach Clean movement and its impact on communities. Lastly, Martin talks about the joy of campervanning and the importance of access to nature for all. The conversation explores the healing power of nature and the balance between environmentalism and the campervan lifestyle. It delves into the challenges of transitioning to a greener lifestyle and introduces the Way of the Waves project, a cycling and surfing adventure. 

Instagram -@martindorey
Website - https://martindorey.com/

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry

Transcript

India (00:00.206)
Should be going. Brilliant. Okay, actual recording. And then that's fine. Looks like we are recording. Okey dokey. Well, let's begin then. So hello and welcome Martin to Start A Ripple podcast. How are you today?

Martin (00:19.891)
I'm great actually, thank you. Yeah, I've had a really great day. I've been out on the beach, been for a surf and also working on a project that I'm doing this year. So it's been a really, one of those really sort of nice days that feels a bit productive.

India (00:34.73)
One of those days that you kind of, yeah, you had a nice balance, I feel, with that.

Martin (00:40.671)
Yeah, I felt like I owed it to myself to go surfing this afternoon instead of sitting at my PC all afternoon, so I'm quite pleased about that.

India (00:49.006)
Yeah, definitely. How often do you get to go surfing? Because obviously I know you live down in Cornwall, so realistically in a week, in a month, how often do you get in the water?

Martin (00:59.131)
Well the last year's been a bit very sporadic because I was out for six months with an injury and also that's kind of changed the way I'm surfing at the moment as well. So I'm tending not to kind of travel too much and not to go in as often as I probably should. So five years ago I'd have been surfing two or three times a week and this winter has been awful in terms of rain and wind and storms down here in Cornwall.

So it's been kind of like, it's been like three or four weeks and since, you know, I got in a couple of days ago and I got in at the weekend. And then before that was like two or three weeks because the weather's been so bad. And I don't really want to kind of get in the car and drive around looking for the little spots because I've got other things to do sort of thing.

India (01:45.15)
Yeah, I guess that in itself takes time. Like you said, you've had an injury. Am I right in thinking it was ACL? Is that right? Yeah, that's a, it's not a fun injury. I've got a friend who did it recently. Yeah, yeah, but my friend, it ruined her cricket career actually. So, yeah, yeah.

Martin (01:50.176)
Yeah.

Martin (01:54.967)
That's a career ending injury. Yeah, if I did anything good.

Oh really, well there you go. Well unfortunately, because I've got, you know, it won't end my career as a writer, but you know, if I was a tennis player or something it would have ended my career. But yeah, and it's been painful and difficult and kind of, it's been a year since I did it. In fact more than a year, 14 months since I did it and you know today I was walking to a beach that's like a mile and a bit and it was a little bit like, oh, you know, can I do this? But it's getting there, just takes time.

India (02:11.618)
Hmm.

India (02:31.198)
And how have you found that adjustment? I mean, because obviously you're somebody who, you know, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on the podcast, who just loves moving in nature. You know, you're a surfer, you, I know that you do a lot of cycling. You love being outdoors, moving in nature with an injury that stops you from, from.

from doing a lot of what you're, you're naturally know that you need to keep your mind and body healthy. And, you know, I'm currently, um, seven or eight months pregnant. I've lost track now. So, and I, so I've, I've had to, yeah, quite far along. Um, and I'm, I'm ready, you know, I've had to really adjust. It's my second pregnancy. So I knew what was coming, but it's that whole adjusting to not being able to do what you know is good for your mind and body.

Martin (03:09.032)
Oh wow.

Martin (03:24.436)
Yeah.

India (03:26.558)
You know, this podcast is, I sort of started it from a place of wanting to inspire people to get outside and move and embrace nature and embrace their physical body. But obviously that isn't possible all the time. So how have you managed to keep, you know, what is true to your soul whilst not being able to do what you naturally want to do?

Martin (03:48.435)
Yeah, that's a really good question actually. And actually, fortunately, I've got a good answer as well, because I've really been thinking about it. I had three months sat on my backside, and not really being able to do anything with my leg up on ice and kind of, you know, and then just it just took forever. But as soon as I could start swimming, everything loosened up. So actually, it's sort of, it's almost reinvigorated my active life.

because I used to surf a lot and I would surf and that would keep me fit. And then being active and would keep me fit, sort of fit. And as I get older and with an injury, I realized that actually I have to keep fit to be able to surf. So I've been swimming a lot and I've started doing, I started doing yoga at home and then I've joined a class. So I'm now doing a class once a week and I'm doing yoga stretching every morning, swimming three times a week sometimes.

and then surfing and trying to walk and cycling to work and stuff. So actually it's really kind of, it's like this really positive shift that actually the injury has inspired me to be better because I don't want to be back in that place again. And that feels really powerful and I'm really enjoying it actually. And it's made, you know, I've lost a load of weight and I've stopped drinking alcohol actually, and that's making me feel great and kind of just, I'm just, it's just this.

It's like a line in the sand where you go, right, I've got to change because I don't want to feel rubbish.

India (05:18.554)
Yeah. And it's about, I guess, not looking at what you can't do. It's about looking at what you can do still. And that's definitely, you know, the mindset. I guess I had to really tap into when I had my daughter actually, two years ago, because obviously, you know, you can't just, I paddleboard a lot here on the Cape Coast. I can just go out for a paddleboard whenever I wanted to. But what could I do? Okay, I could attach it to my

chest and we can go for a nice long walk along the beach. And then, you know, over time that becomes your, your like go to and I guess moments like today when you are able to go out for a surf feel so much more special than when you were probably doing it three, four times a week.

Martin (06:06.271)
Yeah, actually, and actually, I've sort of changed my attitude towards surfing as well, because last summer I was able to paddle aboard, and I wasn't really able to stand up on a surfboard very well, but I could paddle and then catch waves, and actually I sort of started just to go out and have no expectations, and so it was just, well, I'm just going to go for a paddle, have no expectations, and you know, it's nice being out here, and actually that felt really good as well, so

I was trying to apply that to today and sort of go, well, it doesn't matter if I don't get many waves, you know, I'll just enjoy being here. And actually, it's, you know, that's powerful as well, because, you know, like you say, with going for a walk, walking becomes your thing. And actually, you know, I've got, I love swimming, but I really love swimming now, you know, and it used to be a bit perfunctory. Like I used to do a 400.

because that's what I need and know that I need to do to keep my lifeguard exam up is a timed 400 so I would go to the pool and do a 400 and then get out and now it's like well why don't I stay in and do another 30 lengths because it's great and it makes me feel good you know so it's just a it's a little shift isn't it in positivity I guess of sort of half full versus half empty stuff

India (07:18.21)
Definitely.

It's all about perspective, isn't it? Just changing your perspective, changing your mindset. And sometimes it is easier said than done, especially when you're in the thick of something. But yeah, that's really great. So I've actually jumped forward a little bit because I've just got a little bit too carried away with talking about surfing and what you're doing. But if we could, I forget that listeners don't know who, maybe some listeners do know who you are, maybe some listeners don't. So I do like to normally start episodes with asking the guests to kind of give a little bit of background about themselves.

Martin (07:36.843)
That's right.

India (07:50.346)
I like to say, where did your ripples start? So looking back at, you know, your ripples, where did they start? How did you get from that first moment to where you are right now? Just to give us a little bit of context before we dive into a little bit more.

Martin (08:07.519)
Yeah, okay. When I was about five or seven or eight, I remember going down to Bantham in South Bevan and I saw somebody catching a wave and it was like this golden backlit kind of glory. And I then went and spent all my money, all my holiday money on a polystyrene god bodyboard that I'd loved and I used it whenever I could and

And then skateboarding came in, I got into skateboarding and then I decided I would surf. So when I learned to surf that kind of was the guiding light that then sort of has taken me on this journey to beach cleaning and also writing. So, you know as a surfer it's a cliche, but you have vans to stay in so that you can stay near the beach and that's how I got into camper vans and then obviously that leads me on to my books, which are about traveling by van.

And the beach cleaning thing was really just from being on the beach all the time and seeing stuff washing up and then going, well, why is this here? Um, and there was one particular moment when I moved to a place in North Devon. Um, and I was, I went for a walk on the beach and I went to a bit of the beach that I'd not been to before. And it was literally knee deep in plastic bottles. It was really shocking. And I was really angry. Um, and, and that was the moment when it was like, right, we're going to do something about this.

then it took a long time to get other things going but that's sort of that's the ripple but the golden surfer at bantham you know in the mid 70s was really the moment that sort of changed the course of my life i think with for the better you know i'm grateful for it

India (09:55.083)
It's sort of like that butterfly effect, isn't it? It's you look back and you think, God, that was such a pivotal moment in my life and how it's framed where you are now. But I really love, really interested to dive into a little bit more about this whole idea of you, obviously enjoying the great outdoors, enjoying...

spending time on your surfboard, on the beach, and then seeing this plastic and wanting to protect the planet off the back of enjoying your time outdoors. Because another reason why I started this podcast was this whole, this thinking that I sort of found myself in where I realized, hang on a moment, the more time we spend out in nature, the better we feel and the-

the more likely we are, we're going to want to protect the planet. And it is this ripple effect. And that's why I guess where I come from is like trying to encourage people to get outside and move their body in nature. Because at the end of the day, us humans are quite selfish and we need something. We need a bit of a, you know, the kick up the bum that we think was going to give us something back.

before we give back ourselves a lot of the time, not always, but a lot of the time. And so yeah, I'd love to kind of get your thoughts on that and on, because obviously you started the two minute beach clean idea, the hashtag, which has just turned into this global thing. And it's that, I just want to find out a little bit more about how you kind of approach that idea and how you've encouraged more people to get outdoors. And...

and be outdoors in order to get that feeling like they want to protect the planet more.

Martin (11:46.547)
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because going out that sort of hit of happy chemicals from doing something like cycling or surfing is quite obvious because it's a real thrill. But actually that the feeling of getting out in nature and going camping maybe and or also just seeing a seeing a different you know bird that you've not seen before or just feeling the wind on your in your hair and stuff is very subtle and it's very

difficult to kind of sell that because it's so much it's so much easier to kind of like have a pizza and a beer and watch telly and then buy a load of shit on the internet because you there's an obvious dopamine hit with that and it's so hard to counter that because nature is you know you can get the same stuff from it but it's much more it's less immediate and it's less it's less unsubtle so actually um

I don't know, I guess leading on to that in terms of protecting it, I guess we have to try and get people out into nature to know it, because then they can fall in love with it and once they fall in love with it, as you just said, then they're more likely to protect it, they see it under threat. So for me, it was this place that I love, this beach that I absolutely adore, and it's a secret surf spot and it's just amazing.

And yeah, it was knee deep in plastic bottles. And then you can't really, it's kind of like, yeah, we've got to do something about this because I don't want to be here with this stuff. And it's sort of all, I mean, that was again, another one of those pivotal moments. We organized a beach clean, we got the local school down and just, we managed to get a keg of beer from Sharps, actually, so once the kids had gone home and we'd finished the cleanup, we had a big party on the beach. It was just a brilliant, brilliant day.

And it kind of and then of course it's like you wake up the next day and like right we've got to do this all over again Because it's come back so yeah, that's where it comes from

India (13:52.39)
Yeah, yeah. And I guess that can sometimes be the disheartening part of it, can't it? When you just go, okay, right, I've got the drive now. I love spending time on this beach. I want to keep it nice and clean. I'm going to protect it. I'm going to do what I can. And then you don't see everybody else doing it. Or like you say, you get a community of you on board doing it, and then it comes back again.

How do you, as an environmentalist, as someone who's passionate about, you know, protecting the environment, do you ever find times when you're like, oh God, what is the point? Or is it gonna make any difference at all? You know, because, and there is all this, what do they call it, these eco-anxiety that comes up and what the future looks like. Because, you know, on the flip side, I know that one reason I love that two minute beach clean idea is because it's doable. You can.

Martin (14:32.27)
Yeah.

Martin (14:39.692)
Yeah.

India (14:50.582)
do it on your dog walk, you can do it when you're waiting for a bus, you can, whatever it is.

But yeah, how do you kind of keep that momentum and positivity going when there must be times when you just look at it and you think, oh goodness, what is happening?

Martin (15:09.203)
Yeah, well that's why the two minute beach clean exists. Because it's after the big storms in 2013. It was just, again, it was a different beach where I'd moved by that time. And I'd organized quite a few beach cleans and been to a lot of beach cleans. Used to see the same faces at the same beach cleans. And you know, you had to be pretty committed to turn up week in, week out to the same beach clean. And...

India (15:14.392)
Mm-hmm.

Martin (15:37.051)
there was a massive amount of overwhelm. Kind of like, oh god I can't keep doing this and it's really hard to organize a beach clean as you know, you know you've really got to get your, you've actually got to get some paperwork in order and you've got to get things sorted out, you've got to get disposal sorted out. So the two minute beach clean was part... Oh god, exactly, it's so easy but actually it is because that's the two minute beach clean, that's the bit. So the beach

India (15:50.142)
Oh yeah, the risk assessments.

India (15:59.028)
Yeah.

Mm.

Martin (16:05.771)
The bit in the middle is the bit that the two minute beach clean was aiming for so that we can so that if I can persuade everyone who goes out on a walk or surfing or whatever to pick up litter, it makes the beach cleans on Saturdays easier for the people doing the beach cleans. Right. So that was exactly and it means that I don't have to organize any more beach cleans because and I thought it was kind of I mean, I thought it was going to get me like out of doing a whole lot of work because I'll just get on the beach and taste it.

India (16:35.044)
Oh, how wrong you are!

Martin (16:35.759)
I know, I know. And then I wouldn't have to organize any more beach cleans. But of course, because it resonated for so many reasons, which is it tells you don't be overwhelmed, because it doesn't matter if you are overwhelmed, because you can go back tomorrow and do another two minutes. It tells you when you can stop. It tells you don't have to clean up the whole

Martin (17:05.275)
it gets away all the reasons not to do it. So, and the genuine reason is that I was really fed up with organizing beach cleans and I just wanted to do something that could help the beach cleaners, but without actually kind of turning up every week. So yeah, and it works really well.

India (17:22.798)
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Oh, it totally does. And so I've, I've raised money for two, two minute beach clean stations in my local area. And we've actually got another beach cleaning station being made up at the moment that we was another funding project done by local youth projects. That's happening as well. So I've saved the class couple of years. I've been sort of seeing the impact it has on my community.

And the one thing I didn't expect is the positive impact it has on kids. So it's just outside of a cafe on, um, on the beach here. And, um, I've sat there before, just, just watching, see who uses it. And it's a lot of young families. And I've actually even heard people say, yeah, we just take the kids down to pick up some litter cause they think it's like a treasure hunt. Um, you know, when you think I never expected that.

at all when I was thinking, right, we should get a couple of these on our coastline. It's such a good kind of starter for kids to get involved with protecting the planet because you say to them, right, I want you to find one red piece, one shiny piece, one crisp packet or whatever it is, and they're there looking for it and then you...

you bring it back and then it's a start conversation why are we doing this? Yeah, and it's just an observation really, just to say, and I know that you've written a couple of kids sort of environmental books as well. That must give you some sort of sense of pride that you're inspiring a younger generation, the next generation to come that can take it on from you.

Martin (19:13.663)
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, you know, first of all, thanks for fundraising. It's brilliant. And that's what the whole process works on. The other thing is that when we had the first station, we put it on the beach in Buden. I remember sitting there thinking, people are going to laugh at this. They're not going to know what to make of it. And then sure enough, people would come up and then they would take a litter picker and off they go and like, wow, this works. This actually works. And so

To think that could be the start of somebody's environmental journey is such an epic thought, and it makes me feel so, I mean, really proud and really happy and really grateful that people have engaged with it and that people get it and that, if kids think it's a treasure hunt, brilliant. And if they want to do four minutes or 10 minutes or 20 minutes, which is what parents complain to me about, then great. Let them do it.

India (20:08.27)
goes on too long. Yeah.

Martin (20:10.435)
So it's great, I mean, it's all positivity. It was hard work. It was a lot of years of a lot of hard work to get it all going. But it's amazing and I see it now because I'm not officially anything to do with the project anymore. I've stepped away. But it's so good to see it thriving and to see all the posts on social media. And I keep an eye on it and it's just brilliant. It's so brilliant. So yeah.

India (20:17.911)
Yeah.

India (20:28.344)
Hmm.

India (20:38.69)
I mean, I guess it's almost like, you know, it's like a bit like a parent bringing up a child. You bought the Two Minute Beach Clean up, it's breached, it's, I don't know, it's 18 or whatever it is, it's off to university now, it's often it's when you gotta let it do its thing. You've done your job now, which I guess brings us onto kind of your next ventures. And I guess stepping away from the Two Minute Beach Clean must have opened up a lot more time for you

Martin (20:53.975)
Yeah.

India (21:08.406)
step into your other loves. And I know that, for example, I'd love to speak to you about camping and campervans because I actually didn't realize that you were the same person at one point in my life. So I was sat in our Mazda Bongo right at the top of the North Coast 500, reading the slow road, the NC 500 that you wrote. And I was reading it and then I was sort of.

Martin (21:32.328)
Oh yeah, yeah.

India (21:39.098)
I think I looked at it, there was a photo of you and I was going, oh, hang on a moment. This is the bloke that does the two minute beach clean. It's written this book that was actually my Bible during that trip. So yeah, obviously, you've now got more time to spend in the world of camping. I know you've written a book about green camping as well.

Martin (22:01.588)
Yeah!

India (22:07.954)
What is it about living the slow life in a campervan that gives you so much joy?

Martin (22:17.975)
I think it just takes me back to sort of my roots really, you know, of surfing and camping and just being feeling free. You know, like you've got, you can go wherever you want, you can park wherever you want, we know you can't, but you know, that sort of feeling of adventure and that there's always something over the next hill that will inspire you. There's been a bit of a clash recently, I think, because of having to be more conscious about travelling.

But I did that book, the Scotland book, while I was working on the Two Minute Beach Clean project. And so I felt like I had two full-time jobs. And actually what happened was that when I stepped away from the Two Minute Beach Clean, I actually was like, oh, I've got one job now that's great. And I can do that properly because I felt like I was doing, there were times where I wasn't doing both properly, if you know what I mean, because you know what it's like, you take on more stuff than you're able to do. But yeah, camper fanning, it's always, it's just.

I guess it's just that adventure of just travel, adventure, surf, go and see nice places, do nice things, meet nice people, eat nice food, and get off the sofa really. Get out, out and... I sit in front of my PC a lot of the time because I'm a writer, you know, all that. And actually it's the perfect antidote of sitting in front of your PC. So that's why it works really well for me.

India (23:45.682)
And for anyone who's sort of listening to this, never, never done it before, I thought I've always wanted to give a guy, what would you say the best way is to get into whether, you know, get into camping or maybe more specifically camper vans, how would you suggest to somebody who thought, oh, I could try that, but I don't know where to start. What would be your recommendation? And if they also, yeah.

Martin (24:10.981)
Um, yeah, I recommend it.

Go and rent a van. Yeah, rent a van. Yeah, and take it away for a weekend close to home.

India (24:15.25)
Now go for that, go for it. Yeah, what would be your recommendation? Yeah. There's some apps now, isn't there? There's some quite good apps that you can sort of do. Yeah.

Martin (24:23.459)
There's a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, you can. I mean, there's all sorts of lengthy things which, you know, you can get, you can rent a van for like four days, go to a local campsite or a local beauty spot or whatever, try it out because, you know, it really isn't for everybody. Some people, I've got some friends who run a hire company and they sort of say that there's some people come back and give them the keys and go, yeah, it's not really my thing. So, which is fine, you know, and some people like different things from life.

India (24:33.099)
Yeah.

India (24:48.199)
Yeah.

Martin (24:52.727)
But yeah, if you've got an idea, don't go and splash thousands on a van. Just rent one, see how you get on, and if you love it, then go into it.

India (25:03.718)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like you say, start with a campsite, which has got toilets and a few of your modern necessities, so you don't feel like you're branching out too much. And then you, yeah, exactly. And then you can sort of build up from there. I mean, one of the beauties about Scotland is you can work, you can park up wherever you want, to an extent. Whereas in England, technically, you can't.

Martin (25:12.075)
Yeah, get used to being a bit rough.

India (25:31.55)
What is your opinion on that? Because I know that there's a argument for it, isn't there, to say if you, you know, we don't want to have the wild camping in England because we want to avoid the mess, the rubbish, the, you know, all of that. And if we keep it within campsites, we're keeping it there. How do you feel about that as a writer on the subject?

Martin (26:00.123)
Yeah, I mean, that's a really interesting question, isn't it? I mean, I think we've got to picking up litter and doing litter picks is kind of normalizing litter, right? In this way, so that actually going on a campsite and thinking that people are going to make a mess in the countryside is kind of, is, it's a sort of gaslighting, if you like, that, that we're not responsible enough to be in the countryside. Look at the mess we'll make if we go to the countryside, silly old us, you know, the commoners.

And there's a massive problem with access in this country. Nick Hayes' book, The Trespasser's Guide, I think it's called Trespasser's Handbook, and then Guy Shrubshol's book, which is Who Owns England, is two really interesting books, and they're part of the Right to Rome campaign. And I really support them because we only have access to something like 8% of the country, of England and Wales, whereas Scotland is open access for most of the country.

and you know it does work there are problems and communities are learning to deal with those problems and I don't think that we should be kept away from the countryside because we need all of us to protect it so why aren't we allowing all of us to fall in love with it back to where we were right so actually that access is that access and that wild camping and those experiences

India (27:22.887)
Exactly.

Martin (27:27.831)
done properly and done in the right way are vital because you imagine, I mean even campsites are vital right? So you imagine there's an inner city kid who's never been out to the countryside. A campsite is like the first point that they were, they could potentially come in contact with nature. So if a campsite is doing really great stuff like bee hotels and wildlife trails and not mowing the lawns and just having a beautiful natural atmosphere and it's normal.

for those people to be in that place, you know, whatever their background, whatever their sexuality, whatever their race, religion, whatever, if we normalize that, then everybody will have a chance to fall in love with nature back to where we were, as I said, and that's what we need. So for the, for the landowners to say, we don't want people wild camping because we've got the money and we don't, we don't trust people is, is just,

assuming that they know what's best. It really annoys me actually because they don't and you know the guardians of the countryside are not always the people who own the countryside. You know when you look at grouse moors and pheasant shoots and all this kind of stuff that's not conservation that's devastation so you know and that's getting a bit serious isn't it?

India (28:32.318)
Yeah.

India (28:48.602)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, the one that's, oh no, but the thing that boils my blood is when it's the farmers who try and hide the footpaths. And you know, the footpaths are there for us to roam through and safely enjoy the countryside. And then when they're trying to pretend that there isn't a footpath there, yeah. I mean, that's a whole nother subject in itself. And I've done a whole podcast on it even, but yeah, it's...

It is, it goes back to that, that idea that in order to get people to protect our environment, we need to be exposing people to the environment and by not allowing people the right to roam, you're cutting off all those opportunities. And, you know, somebody might, you know, God, the price of campsites nowadays.

India (29:44.142)
I think on average I was looking at about 50 quid a night. Yeah, that could put somebody off wanting to camp. Whereas if it was a freebie, then they might have the opportunity to do it. And like you say, no one actually wants to camp in a rubber sheet. No, that's not why you're doing it. So surely the majority are going to be protecting the environment. And how do you...

Martin (30:02.411)
No, absolutely.

Martin (30:10.251)
Yeah, I mean, the other thing...

India (30:13.93)
Now go for it.

Martin (30:14.695)
Yeah, the other thing that's interesting about getting out in the environment is not only that sort of selflessness about wanting to protect nature, but actually the fact that nature can heal us as well. We talked about this earlier, didn't we? I mean, you know, in this book, Nick Hayes' book, Trespass' Handbook, he talks about the natural health service, you know, and you know that people who go, I mean, you know, we talked about it earlier, I went swimming because my back was hurting.

Right. And that keeps me out of A&E and that keeps me out of the doctors and it keeps me out of the health service. And I'm looking after myself by going out into nature, going swimming, walking, surfing, cycling, it's keeping me fit. And it's, if you think about it really selfishly, it's, it is, it's doing something for yourself and actually, and that is doing something for everybody else as well, because if I'm sat in a chair,

My back's aching, I'm taking loads of really expensive drugs, I'm going to the doctors every week, I'm eating really crap food. It's not just me I'm hurting, it's everybody else because they have to try and, society has to help us. And thankfully it does through the NHS. But you know, it's, I don't know, where am I going with that? I've gone down a little bit of a cul-de-sac, but it's just positivity.

India (31:34.502)
Yeah, no, I totally get it. I mean, I want to say, yeah, but what about a year? No, maybe more than that. Probably about two years ago. I, you've just like jogged my memory. I was on some sort of radio four, BBC Radio Four show talking about paddle boarding because they were thinking of prescribing it. They were thinking of trialing it in Bristol and prescribing paddle boarding on the NHS for people who had depression. And I don't know if it ever came.

about more than that. It was sort of just asking my opinion on it and stuff. I don't know if it ever came more of that, but I was saying, well, yeah, because it's this whole idea of, you know, the nature has so many healing powers. You know, for me, you know, it's different for everybody. For me, it's the sea. We moved inland for a year. We've moved back to the sea because it's just what makes my mind feel calm and I feel

so much more kind of at peace and my body feels better when I'm by the sea. And it is, I want to look after myself more and nature is inspiring me to do that. So I think it's that whole exposure thing is key and yeah, we're kind of missing it a little bit. So I'm curious to know as an environmentalist and somebody who...

obviously talks a lot about campervans and obviously campervans are moving down a greener path but there is an element of it not being as green. How do you find those two worlds meeting? So I know you have written the green camping book which is obviously not all about campervans but it's you know, talked about it a bit. So yeah, how do you kind of sit and because it's really hard to not be

Martin (33:25.349)
Oh, yeah.

India (33:31.69)
know, we're all hypocritical in this world. We're all trying to do our best, aren't we? And, you know, I've got a diesel T5 on our drive, which is not the best for the environment, but I still would call myself an environmentalist. So I do sometimes get my head all muddled with it. And I'm just curious to know how you do.

Martin (33:54.371)
Okay, this is really interesting. It's a really interesting subject because it is possible. So you're not being particularly aggressive with your questioning, it's a perfectly reasonable question, but then actually somebody might say to me, you know, online, you call yourself an anti-plastic person, yeah but your glass is a plastic, and I'm sorry, you have to just go

India (33:58.102)
Hehehe

Martin (34:24.491)
you know, to that, because it is possible to be an environmentalist and own a phone, you know, because that's the life, that's the world we live in. But when it comes to transport and the van, I consider myself lucky because I've got an audience. So actually, I'm in transition, and I want my audience to be in transition too. So actually,

India (34:26.003)
Yeah.

Martin (34:52.127)
I brought out a book called The Campervan Bible about nearly 10 years ago now. Um, and I did a re a new edition of it because things have changed. And what I did in that new edition was insist that the environmental section goes upfront. It's the first thing you read after the introduction is we're at this crossroads. We need to deal with it. This is, this is how I think we should deal with it, which is about, you know, um, you may

you may still be driving a camper van, but you can stop for two nights instead of one, right? That's simple. You can go to a waste free shop. You can pick up litter when you're there. You can get involved in community projects. You can spend locally. You know, you can do all those things that make a difference and still be a camper van driver and still be on transition. So actually we're trying to understand where we need to go with it. You know,

And actually, I think that's the answer is, you know, don't go, you know, the North Coast 500, as you mentioned earlier, I mean, people try and do that in like four or five days. And God, you know, all you're doing is driving. What's the point? And you might as well just watch a video of the drive. So actually, it's about, look, let's slow down. Let's do half of it this week, and then half of it next week. And so it's a hard one, personally.

because I don't know where I'm going with it. I do know where I'm going with it, and we'll probably talk about it in a minute, hopefully. But for the time being, I've got an audience, and if that audience comes with me, then that's a massive privilege and opportunity to make things better in the sort of long term, if you see what I mean. Am I kidding myself? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

India (36:41.422)
Mm-hmm.

No, no, I totally get it. I totally get it. I mean, it's that whole idea of, we might as well do our little bit. And obviously, you know, when we don't live in a world that, I think it must be nearly probably impossible nowadays to live in a world where you don't touch plastic and you, you know, you don't, you know, from a medical point of view, we need plastic. There's lots of positives actually.

plastic can be a very positive thing as well. It's just the way that it's just got a little bit out of control, very out of control. But like you say, when you're on your camping trip or wherever you are, you can make those conscious choices to make it as sustainable as possible. And if we all make those conscious choices, then it's going to have a ripple effect. It's going to have a bigger effect. It's a bit like flying, doing a stop.

It's better to do long like one big long haul journey, isn't it? Than to have a stop halfway, you know, and then, and then carry on again. So, and don't fly seven times a year, just fly once a year or whatever it is. And it's that whole, the same, it's the same idea, isn't it? You can, you can, you can make a trip as sustainable as you want to, I guess. And still enjoy it, enjoy it. And it's

Martin (38:07.938)
Yeah.

India (38:10.634)
Yeah, and I know that you've, I mean that you're sort of, have you got an electric van or have you been trialing electric vans? No.

Martin (38:16.339)
No, I haven't. No, no, I'm going to be trialing one. There's, there's a camper that, um, yeah, I've got an electric motorbike that I ride around town on when I'm going to work and stuff and electric bikes and stuff, but, um, I haven't managed to get that. They still haven't got the answer right. You know, like the VW Buzz is too small to be a camper really. Um, you know, it's, it's tiny compared with the T5 and the T6. Um, and the,

India (38:21.59)
That's it, I think I've heard, I've read of something else.

India (38:28.364)
Right.

Yeah.

India (38:36.944)
Yeah.

India (38:41.257)
Mm.

Martin (38:47.019)
The electric vans, the big ones like the Transits and the Ducatos, and this is where I kind of like know too much and I'm sorry if I carry on, but they're really designed for multi-drop delivery in like a big city like London, where they're perfect because they don't have pollution and they only have a range of like 125 miles. So for me to go to Scotland is like a three-day trip from here, but actually if I was delivering, you know, whatever in London, they're great because they will only

India (39:03.49)
Mm-hmm.

Martin (39:16.659)
a delivery driver only ever does like 100 miles a day. So from that point of view, great, we applaud them, but they're not quite right yet for some reason. And it's really frustrating that we, I just was at the NEC camper van show a couple of weeks ago and there's one electric camper there and it's not going into production. And it's like, it's so depressing, but there's such a lot of catch up to do. And I'm gonna borrow, that's the one I'm gonna borrow.

India (39:16.756)
Yeah.

India (39:20.839)
Yeah.

India (39:27.714)
Yeah.

India (39:40.215)
Meh.

Martin (39:44.703)
and try and take it up to Scotland at some point to prove that maybe it is possible to go on a long trip.

India (39:51.622)
It is possible. Let's get this. Yeah. Let's get it going. Let's, you know, I mean, obviously there is also the price that comes into it, which is a whole, whole nother thing. No, but yeah, that is a big investment, isn't it? But I guess, yeah, it's that sort of, like you say, where we are right now, you know, van life is one of the most wonderful ways to explore this world, to retreat from

Martin (39:59.959)
Oh my word, yeah.

India (40:21.578)
reality for all those, you know, to enjoy the, this beautiful planet. And it's really important that we still embrace that, but embrace it in a, in a sustainable way is, is also possible. Now I know that obviously you were talking about, you've got an electric motorbike, but as far as I know, you also, do you also have an electric push bike? Is that what you call it? Can you call that electric push bike? And you're about to embark on quite exciting adventure.

Martin (40:44.319)
I do, yeah.

Martin (40:51.419)
Yeah, yeah, it's really exciting. Yeah.

India (40:52.19)
on this bike. And I'd love to find out more about that, because you can just tell listeners what you have planned for this summer, because when I read about it, I said to my husband, I was like, this, right, okay, we've got a few years ahead of us before we can do anything like this, because we're in young child world now. But I was like, this needs to be something that we do in the future. So yeah, can you share?

a bit more about is it the way of the waves project.

Martin (41:23.099)
Yeah, I'm so excited about it. It actually is a really nice lead-in to this actually because this is the part of the transition. So actually I've spent the last six or seven years driving around France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, writing these books about camper vanning and being in a camper van and so I kind of felt like I wanted to kind of get out of the van a bit and do something else and I love cycling.

My partner Lizzie has done, oh gosh, I mean she's an amazing cyclist. She's crossed the Andes twice on a bike. And she'll go, it's the low bit. It wasn't the high bit, the high Andes, it was just the low Andes. I'm kind of like, one, you were there in South America cycling, two, I don't care if it was the low Andes, it's still pretty impressive. So she wants to go, yeah, no, exactly. So she wants to go cycle touring, and I.

India (42:08.566)
It was...

India (42:13.89)
The Andes and twice.

Martin (42:21.663)
want to go cycle touring, but I don't want to do it without a surfboard. Because I don't want to get somewhere and not be able to surf. So the way of the Waves project is basically come from that. That there's this kind of pilgrimage that surfers take down the west coast of France and the north coast of Spain and then the west coast of Portugal and in the 70s 80s and even now they would then cross over to go to Morocco. We're not going to Morocco but we're cycling from home in Cornwall on our electric bikes.

with our surfboards on trailers behind us. However this is gonna work out, I don't know. And we're aiming to get to Sagres in the south of Portugal. And the idea about it really is kind of exploring this pilgrimage that people make. And it's a kind of like a Camino that people do. And they kind of go to these hallowed spots, Horscores, Lacanau, Biarritz, Nazaré and wherever.

and they go and they just travel to these places and they go in a great big long line, chase the sun, and they've been doing it since the early 60s. So I'm sort of finding out about the history of it and as we do it we're going to be exploring the places where people, you know, where this history has occurred. And we're camping, so we're taking all our camping gear on trailers, surfboards, wet suits,

And it's just the most exciting thing I've ever done in my life, I think. And I can't wait to get in.

India (43:55.09)
And how long are you expecting it to take?

Martin (43:57.887)
Well, unfortunately it has to take 90 days because of Brexit. So yeah, so we can't do it in any longer. I think we're gonna be okay. Yeah, woohoo! It's coming, you know, whatever. Anyway, so I mean we should be able to, I think we will be able to do it. But we've got friends that are, friends of ours...

India (44:05.29)
Oh gosh, yeah, I didn't even think about that. Right. Good old Brexit. Yeah.

India (44:22.746)
Mm-hmm. It adds to the challenge, doesn't it?

Martin (44:24.575)
Well exactly. I mean, but the other thing is that I don't want to cane it. I mean, I know that friends of mine cycled from Roscoff to Nice in like 10 days and they were doing 120, 150 kilometers a day. And that's not what this project's about. It's about going slowly and it's about discovering people, landscapes, you know, culture. And you know, we've got so many amazing coastlines to cycle through.

India (44:29.398)
Hmm.

India (44:37.34)
Yeah.

Martin (44:51.811)
There's all the kind of marshland in the Loire and then there's the Atlantic coast of southern France and the mountains in northern Spain. And I just want to kind of go and explore them and be in them. And also the other thing is, and you've just said it when you said, oh, I'd love to do that. I want to inspire people to do surf travel in a different way, to look at, look at the way they travel and go, fuck, is that possible? Could we do that? Yeah, let's do it.

India (45:19.555)
Yeah.

Martin (45:21.395)
And actually, because the thing that's holding everybody back and the things that the thing that's screwing us all up is time. Because people feel entitled and probably rightly so. I've got two weeks and I've got to go somewhere hot. So I'll get on a plane and actually if you had four weeks, what would you do with it? So maybe it's time to sort of start thinking differently about how we live and how we survive and what we expect from life. Because if we keep going consuming.

India (45:28.864)
Mm-hmm.

Martin (45:51.571)
And the same goes for travel. You know, we know where we're going. So yeah, have I talked too much about this project? I'm really excited about it. I can't wait.

India (45:57.772)
Yeah.

India (46:01.11)
No, no, no. It's really, really exciting. And I guess it's that whole idea of you stumblers across the surf spot and the waves are just beautiful and perfect for the next three days. And you know, you find a community that you really get on with, whatever it is, you might want to hang out there for a few days. And like you say, I think time is

goes against us so much, doesn't it? And it is something we can never get back as well. So yeah, I guess it's that you're kind of in this weird world where you know the ethos part of the project is key is taking the slow road, but equally you've got 90 days to do it. And so really interested to find out how you get on and, you know, and you don't know what the weather's going to be doing and all sorts. So you have to allow for extra time.

Martin (46:45.602)
Yeah.

Well, yeah, we're gonna be.

Martin (46:54.823)
Yeah, I mean, there's so many variables and it will be a book and that's the point. But so actually, and I was talking to the editor the other day and it's like, it doesn't matter if we if we have a problem, if we if the bright, if the bikes break, it doesn't matter because it's the store. That's the story. And that's I mean, that's how I've always approached my writing is I'll go somewhere. I'll put myself in a place and I'll see what happens. And, you know, if it's a dolphin that jumps or it's an otter that I see or if it's

India (47:03.423)
Yeah.

India (47:11.927)
Mmm, mhm.

India (47:17.816)
Mm-hmm.

Martin (47:21.259)
picking up litter or whatever it is, that's the story and that's fine. So it's just about putting ourselves out there, hoping for the best, you know, getting some good research in first and then just, oh god, enjoying the hell out of it hopefully, you know. And like you say, if we find somewhere great, we'll just stop. Yeah, it's great, I love it here. Let's stay here for a week and then we'll have to cane it for the next few days but it doesn't matter, you know.

India (47:37.415)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess it's.

India (47:44.642)
Mm. Yeah. And I guess it's about having that, that sort of, yes, your, your goal is to reach the Southern point of Portugal and you're, and you're, and, and that's what you're aiming for. But if for whatever reason it doesn't happen, that is also okay because it's, it is about the journey. It's about the experience. It's a, it's about being outdoors and.

like you say, like connecting to the environment, the people, the food, the car, it's all about that. And I think we do, like you say, we have this kind of mindset now of, right. You know, we have to go to for two weeks in the sun or, or I'm going to get into running and I've got to finish the marathon and I've got to do it in this amount of time and, but all of those things just stops you just enjoying the moment and, and being present and.

Yeah, connecting to yourself, to others, it's all part of it. Yeah, I'm so excited for you and to kind of how it all goes. And like you say, you're definitely going to be inspiring other people doing it. So when do you leave? When's the plan?

Martin (49:00.599)
We leave on the 20th, I think it's the 20th of May. Can't come soon enough, although we've got a wedding in between, so Lizzie and I are getting married on the 5th of May. And then, so this is kind of like an extended working honeymoon. Which is...

India (49:08.162)
Oh, not too far. Okay.

India (49:13.911)
Oh, very, very exciting.

India (49:19.758)
There you go. That's, I think that's, yeah. Yeah, that is a great honeymoon. Love that. Yeah. That is brilliant. What a way. Yeah.

Martin (49:25.139)
Yeah, not bad, not bad. In a tent for three months.

India (49:32.522)
It's all right, you're married by that point. There's no going back then. Yeah, exactly. Right, well, I always like to end the podcast by asking the same question to my guests. And I'm gonna do the same with you, Martin. So looking back at the ripples you've made in your life, what are the key takeaways that you've learned for keeping your mind and body healthy?

Martin (49:36.018)
Yeah, maybe that's the thing. Get used to it because this is how it's going to be.

Martin (50:03.339)
Wow, okay. I mean, I was talking earlier about this kind of shift in the way that I am being at the moment. I learning that, you know, if you stop, you stop. So, but as long as you keep moving, and it doesn't mean keep moving in terms of like keep chasing, but just keep moving physically, then good things will follow.

So, and I guess I've done that my whole life. It's just that it's kind of as a writer. I've sort of, you know I've spent I've spent a long time working really hard at writing and sitting at my desk and it's no good for you, you know And so the takeaway from that would be everything in moderation Move as much as you can But also relax as much as you can um trust Trust nature to look after you

and if you look after it sort of thing. I don't know, that's a hard question.

India (51:06.666)
Yeah, I know. It's quite, I mean, you can go off on all sorts of tangent with it, but I think that's, that's a lovely way to end it. You know, trust nature to look after you and, and vice versa. Look after nature and we, you know, support each other, you know, in this wild world life thing that we're all doing. And so yeah, well, thank you so much. I've, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you. And yeah, I've

Martin (51:10.166)
Yeah.

India (51:35.782)
super stoked to be talking to the guy behind the, you know, these books that I've been reading and took me a couple of years to actually put two and two together that it was another guy that was following, same guy that was following on Instagram about litter picks. So that's very cool for me. But yeah, thank you so much. And I am so excited for your trip. Really, really happy for you as well. Come, say the 5th of May, we're getting married.

Martin (52:02.343)
Yeah, yeah.

India (52:03.702)
And yeah, I hope all of that goes well. And yeah, we'll be following your journey, so thank you.

Martin (52:08.448)
Thank you so much. It's been really nice talking to you and actually it's been really interesting talking about these subjects that sometimes can be a little bit difficult. You know the wild camping stuff and the transition stuff is good to challenge it. We've got to talk about it and it's great to have a chance to chat with you about it because it does matter, is important, we can't ignore it. So thank you.

India (52:17.622)
Mm-hmm.

India (52:22.719)
Mm-hmm.

India (52:29.971)
Yeah. Amazing. Thank you. Woohoo! Nice! Right, let me just...

Martin (52:34.371)
Is that all right?