Charlotte Ditchburn | From PTSD to Public Rights of Way Explorer

Charlotte Ditchburn is an expert in the field of Rights of Way, and an advocate for access so that we can all enjoy the beautiful British country side more! Living in the northern Lake District Charlotte is an an ambassador for Ordnance Survey, British Canoeing and The National Outdoor Expo and does incredible work bridging the gap in conversation about how important access is to our adventures both on land and water. You will learn so much from the episode as this is something not spoken about enough! 

Find  Charlotte on Instagram - @publicrightsofwayexplorer

Charlottes's website - https://prowexplorer.com/ 

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform 💙

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram  @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry

Transcript

India Pearson  0:01  
Hello, I'm India and welcome to start a record. The podcast that celebrates moving in nature is the I believe it was a made when we connect movement with nature, not only for our mind and body, but also the environment too. And on this series, I'm speaking to some amazing guests that share that passion, I have their own story to tell. All right, time to introduce this week's guest. Charlotte ditchburn is an expert in the field of rights of way, and an advocate for access so that we can all enjoy the beautiful British countryside more. Living in the northern Lake District. Charlotte is an ambassador for Ordnance Survey, British canoeing and the National Outdoor Expo, and does incredible work bridging the gap in conversation about how important access is to our adventures, both on land and water. You will learn so much in this episode, as this is something not spoken about enough. And I'm so excited to share it with you. Okay, hi, Charlotte, Welcome to Star Report.

Charlotte Ditchburn  1:06  
Thank you very much for having me. It'd be lovely to speak to you. I'm really

India Pearson  1:09  
excited to chat to you. Because, yeah, I think this episode is gonna be a little bit different to to the theme, I guess, of my other episodes, I've not spoken to somebody with your expertise. And so yeah, I'm really fascinated to chat to you actually. And so I'm gonna let you introduce yourself if that's okay. Yeah, tell listeners, who you are and where you're repple started.

Charlotte Ditchburn  1:36  
So I'm Charlotte. I'm also known as public rights of way explorer online. So my background is in the access sector. So I work full time in rights of way. And that means looking after the footpaths, bridleways by waste are out in the countryside. And I currently work for an equestrian charity. So I focus mainly on the bridleways and byways and the outdoors. But that kick started from university and then an interest in the outdoors. And now outside of work, I advocate access on the rivers on the land. And I'm really interested to tell other people about it and hopefully inspire other people to get involved in the axis. And do a little bit for your dog walk or your local paddle and see if you can improve it for yourself.

India Pearson  2:16  
Yeah, see, I think what you're doing is incredible, because I think we, in the UK, we take for granted the access that we can get and that we have, and we don't realise that having public footpaths is an absolute privilege, the fact that they're protected and most part they looked after you doing doing their job and we can, you know, walk our way, all the way across the country, essentially, with these guided footpaths. I mean, that's amazing. It's it's, it's a free way to enjoy the beautiful outdoors, beautiful countryside. And like you say people like myself who have a dog who enjoy paddleboarding, you're making that happen? And but I know that it's not it's not the easiest ride and you do need people like you advocating for it, because otherwise it can get lost. But just out of curiosity, how? I don't know if you'll be able to answer this question because I haven't I know that I didn't prep it, but I just thought it different. How long have we had these like public right away? Pay for.

Charlotte Ditchburn  3:30  
So in the UK, it came in 1949 with the national parks and access to the countryside act. So that is when the government decided that we need to get all these roots down on paper and we need to know where they all go. And they sent people like parish councils Scout groups, just local volunteers out and they took they felt tip pens with a little base map and just drew where they felt all these rights of way go. And in some cases, they did a really good job and some parishes have a really well connected, obvious footpath, to footpath bridleway, bridleway, good network. In other cases, they sat down in the pub, they said, Where do you think this one goes, they went off from my farm here to that church there and they literally drew a straight line from A to B, even though there might have been a river or a barn in the way. And we're now stuck with that line that they drew in the pub. So there are some issues with how it was done. And then in 2000, we decided that we needed a bit more access and a bit more guidance around the open access to the countryside and rights of way act in that year, brought about the Open Access land where we have the right to roam. So that's lots of hills Marlins down heathland sort of areas, and you can just roam freely wherever you like. But sadly, they didn't include rivers in that. So we're still restricted with the river access that we have and some of the coastal access because they haven't really brought that up to speed like they have with the footpaths.

India Pearson  4:54  
Right so is this why you're you do you're an ambassador for British canoeing? Is that and obviously also ordinance serving and national outdoor exposure. But I'm guessing your your work that you do bridge canoeing is to kind of bring that to light a little bit more.

Charlotte Ditchburn  5:11  
Yeah, so the work I do with them is to try and highlight the fact that we have access free access to less than 4% of our rivers across the UK. So in Scotland, we have a great right to navigate any of the rivers, we like the same as you can roam over the land wherever you like, responsibly doing that, not taking it for granted. But in England and Wales, we have less than 4% of those rivers to access in the same way. So working with them to highlight that with general public to try and get people involved in lobbying, to improve that access. And for people to just understand where you can and can't go where you might need a licence to do it. And then paying that licence fee actually means that they can help stop invasive species spreading, improve access points, where you might want a little launch point or something like that. So there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes and British canoeing and doing a lot of work to try and improve that access for everyone. And they do a lot of paddle cleanups as well to try and remove the litter, because 80% of our marine rubbish actually comes from our inland waters. So working together with paddle groups and individuals to reduce that.

India Pearson  6:11  
Yeah, and actually, you know, having sort of done bits and pieces of British canoeing and being part of a shoe paddles Ambassador thing, I quite often get people asking me, what's the point of having a British canoeing membership? Why don't go to pay whatever it is? 45 pounds the partner there? Yeah. It's so important. Not only does it give you insurance, which is really great. It means that you can go and paddle in these beautiful places, and they're kept beautiful. And you're paddling, you know, all aboveboard. And and I don't think people realise when they buy a kayak or buy a paddleboard, that that actually,

Charlotte Ditchburn  6:55  
is, you can't just hop on the water and free access everywhere. Yeah, yeah.

India Pearson  7:01  
And even for those places that you are getting access to, you know, they don't just look after themselves, as well, exactly. No, I think it's brilliant. It's brilliant that you're shouting about it. And I know that when we started speaking, you were saying there's a gap in the conversation where we don't know about how important access is to adventures. You know, how are you then getting this conversation alive again, what are you doing to make people realise this.

Charlotte Ditchburn  7:34  
So on the water, I'm just trying to raise the awareness that we don't have the access on the land, it's a little bit different with our rights of way, there are some that aren't on that legal map that they drew up back in the 1940s. So we have the current legal map today. And if they're not on that map, they could actually be lost forever, landowners could put a gate up, they could stack a load of bales, they could obstruct them. So if we don't save them and protect them on this definitive map, they could be lost forever. And although there was a deadline at one point of 2026, that's now been repealed. So it's taken a little bit of pressure off. But I think people still need to be involved, there's still a lot of work to be done. So the Ramblers have identified 440 9000 miles of footpaths that aren't currently on the legal map, and they think there are even more. And that's just footpaths, if you think about the number of bridle lanes and byways on top of that, there's 1000s of miles of paths that are at risk. And they have to go through a legal process to be put onto the definitive map. So that's where people need to get involved. Even if you're not doing that legal application yourself. It's raising it with someone like the Ramblers are the British Horse Society on British canoeing and saying, look, I think my route is at risk, or I'm not sure if my route is on the definitive map, and just reaching out and checking for your local area. And that's where I think people need to get involved on the ground. And these big organisations, they're doing great work, but they can't cover everywhere. There's just such a vast amount of space and paths to check. But people need to get involved and check their own.

India Pearson  8:59  
Yeah, absolutely. So. So if I was to be walking my dog, and I find that I've come across a path that seems maybe overgrown, or it feels like it suddenly stops in the middle of nowhere. Is that when I would contact someone like yourself, for the Ramblers to,

Charlotte Ditchburn  9:14  
yeah, so you need to have the first thing I'd do is have a look on an Ordnance Survey map. So you can pay for a subscription with Ordnance Survey, or you can even have a check on Bing for free. And then see if that row is what you expect it to be. If you're walking it with your dog, if it's a footpath, if you're giving it the go on your bike if it's a bridleway and if it is then great, if you're a little bit concerned that maybe you're walking it, it's not on the definitive map as you'd expect it as a footpath or it's not the right status. That's when you can get in touch with the British Royal Society, or Ramblers, or whoever is relevant for that and they'll be able to help you check it and if it's not on the map, they'll be able to progress an application for it to be put on the map correctly.

India Pearson  9:52  
And I have found that sometimes people try and hide the tip parts if they go through their land. And, you know, farmers or even just residential land it can sometimes people tend to they don't some people don't like it, they tried to hide it. So what do you do in that situation? Do you would you approach the person themselves? What would you suggest to go through official mean, go

Charlotte Ditchburn  10:16  
through an official means. So you report it to your local council. So whether that's your county council or a unitary authority, depends how it works in your area, but it's generally a county council, and they have the powers to go and speak to the landowners and make them remove whatever's there. If it's an overgrowth, or obstruction like that, the council will cut it back. But if it's a dumped old car or something like that, the council will be able to get that removed for you. So you don't have to get involved in the tedious conversations with landowners and maybe a bit of confrontation that you don't want to have.

India Pearson  10:45  
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've definitely experienced that. Because you sign saying, you know, farmers say, Get off my land, and we're going to be, thank you very much. Now, obviously, having access to the outdoors is so important to so many people without them even realising. And, you know, if we lose it, we, we could lose a lot of, I guess, access to things that bring us physical and mental well being. But I'm curious to know, from your perspective, on a personal level, how important is it to having having access to the outdoors to you, and how has it affected your personal life.

Charlotte Ditchburn  11:33  
So I was really lucky to grow up in the Lake District myself, so I had it on the doorstep. I don't think I realised the value of it. At that point, I was being dragged up fells with family and I was doing it kicking and screaming and didn't enjoy it quite as much as I probably should have. But then I went off to university and kind of started appreciating that outdoor space a little bit more. I was actually diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety and depression at university. And then that point, I really did start to value the outdoors more. When I moved back to the lakes after uni, and I was dealing with that in processing it. The outdoors really helped me to do that. I found that I didn't really want to be around people. I didn't want to be in big crowds. I could just be outdoors in nature and feel a bit more at peace and helped me find somewhere that was quiet to immerse myself in nature and process what was going on. And then from there, I started to discover the joys of actually heading outdoors with other people finding groups going out paddleboarding with groups of people, and the blue spaces kind of opened up to me. I'd been out canoeing as a kid once or twice, but never really got into the sailing and on the water stuff. But as I've now come after university, I've discovered paddleboarding and I think it's amazing. The things I've seen in nature, I've seen otters up in Scotland, I've spotted kingfishers on the Norfolk Broads. And it's just such a special moment to sit there on your board, totally on your own in silence and witnessed these amazing wildlife things. So I've really found benefit for both mental and physical well being. And I really think that I've worked quite a sedentary job, I'm sat at the laptop all day, every day, finding that time outside and actually benefiting physically from it as well as such a big part of my life now.

India Pearson  13:14  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've kind of thought it through to your work life as well as your personal life. And was that something that you wanted to do after university? Or had it just evolved that way? You know, from finding that it was giving you so much joy and comfort? And mindfulness? Did you then go right, I want a career in this or did it just sort of develop that you realising?

Charlotte Ditchburn  13:39  
It kind of just evolved itself when I left university, I went and I was a chainsaw operator for the RSPB for six months or so. And I kind of didn't enjoy that it was too much hard work. And it put me off being in the outdoors. But then I sat down and I reevaluated where I wanted to go and I thought no, I really do want to work in the outdoors. Whether it's a range of job or something with volunteers, I'd like to be in the outdoors. So I just started applying for any job that I could get. And I got offered a right of way off the job in Suffolk. And that's kind of where my knowledge of access has grown from there. And then I've developed on the side public rights of way explorer and my actual career in it. So it's kind of all just fallen into place without me necessarily planning it and knowing that's what I wanted, but it's all worked out in the end. And being back in the Lake District. I moved back last August time. It's really felt like I've come home and I've settled in the outdoors and it's all just worked out like a jigsaw.

India Pearson  14:34  
Yeah, well, it's funny, isn't it? How life does that and, and I guess you, you know, realising how important being out in nature is to you having you know, found yourself in a place where you really needed it. It's probably make you realise we need it. Everybody needs it.

Charlotte Ditchburn  14:54  
Yeah. And the pandemic has really hit home how much you need the outdoors. I was living in Suffolk, I was living in a tiny one bed cottage. So I was really lucky to have that outdoor space, I had a tiny garden. And I could walk out on the footpath, but it kind of really hit home, the lack of access we kind of have. So you can't just roam anywhere and where we were living in a village, you were really densely populated, you're meeting everyone out and your dog walks. Whereas you come up here to the lakes, and we live just on the outskirts, not in one of the honey pots, and you can walk here in the evenings and not meet a soul. So it's just really therapeutic. And I think everyone should have that chance to access nature and to not always be alone, but have that chance to suppress all the work feelings and all the stress feelings and enjoy that time in nature on your own.

India Pearson  15:39  
Well, it's it's not I think, I think I had this another another podcast, as it seemed to be sort of, often we use the word alone and think of it it's been quite a negative thing. But actually, it's a solitude, isn't it? And being just there with no other distractions, and it's a really important thing I think we probably don't do enough of because in this whole social thing, where it's social media and brands, and yeah, and having that space is Yeah, it's so

Charlotte Ditchburn  16:17  
finding therapy, finding that balance, because you can you can have therapy from both being in groups and having that social interaction and having that solitude and you're not isolating yourself, you'd have to be on your own all the time, but finding 1015 minutes to be on your own and listen to the birds or just listen to the water in the river. It's really amazing what it can do for your mental health, just 1520 minutes a day.

India Pearson  16:39  
Absolutely. I definitely, definitely agree with that. And so obviously, you must sort of, even though you're based in Lake District, I imagine that you've got quite a good idea of the UK, having constantly looking at maps, and I'm sure you explored many parts of the UK. So what I'd love to know is if you could choose one place in the country to explore, you know, that's it even one place. That's your yes, yeah, where would it be?

Charlotte Ditchburn  17:09  
It was really hard to decide having lived down south having lived in the lakes haven't explored Scotland, there are so many places I'd like to explore more or explore for stuff that I've never been to. But the west coast of Scotland really has a special place in my heart. And I know that's not really in one specific place. But that whole section of Scotland, the rugged coastline, the see the white beaches, that is where I'd like to find some more time to explore, to see the wildlife to see the scenery, and just find a bit of peaceful time because I find when I do go on holiday out there, everything else just melts away. You're just there to immerse yourself in it and enjoy a week or a weekend just on a beach somewhere. And it feels like you're in the Bahamas minus the temperature with white sand beaches.

India Pearson  17:55  
I agree we I was there last summer we did the NC 500 In our camper van and some of those beaches, often nominal. Yeah, you know, it's obviously you're in a certain like a six mil wetsuit, when you're in the crystal quit. It feels like you've gone a lot further than, you know, just the top of the UK, that's for sure. And I think that what is amazing is that it feels like there's endless exploration there. It's so vast, and it's so wild. And that's what is intriguing about it.

Charlotte Ditchburn  18:37  
The place I would most like to go and visit on the west coast of Scotland is Knoydart to go and have a paddle expedition up there. So you can get from the mountaintops down to the sea level. So you can head out for a couple of days. Take your 10 everything you need on your board and just explore I'd absolutely love to do that.

India Pearson  18:55  
Oh, wow, that sounds amazing. I think what's great is what I've realised since that pandemics don't need to go abroad to get all these incredible experiences. It's it is all in the UK and and we're so lucky to have access to all these incredible places that you know we can we didn't find it by not booking a flight actually a lot of those speaking actually of the environment. What what what do you do then within your work to protect the environment because one of my biggest reasons for starting this podcast was realising that the more time I spend in nature, the more time I wanted to look after the environment that I was immersing myself, because it was giving me so much and I knew that if it wasn't looked after, I would be enjoying it as much it's sort of this this ripple effect essentially. And, and yeah, so um Curious to know kind of what you do in your work to protect the environment that a lot of us Joe Bloggs, we go out on a walk or a paddleboard take for granted.

Charlotte Ditchburn  20:09  
So when I'm advocating access through work or through public rights of way explore, I'm always pushing for the countryside code and the Leave No Trace mantra. So we're even developing the Leave No Trace now to leave it better than you found it. And I think that's really important. So whether I'm representing Ordnance Survey, or British canoeing, whoever it might be, I'm always pushing to educate and inspire people to do what they can for the environment. So the countryside code lays out some really basic ground rules about how you can responsibly access the outdoors. And people like British canoeing and developing a paddling code as well. So you can follow that on the water. And it'd be great if everyone could leave gates as you find them Park responsibly. When you're setting up for paddling, don't park your car, so no one else can get in, I know you want to blow your board up. But just being responsible and a bit thoughtful about people, not only people that are visiting, but the landowners that are there, they might need to access somewhere to feed their sheep. And you parking that too for over the gateway means that they can't do that. So just taking a little bit of common sense and learning a little bit. If you've never been to the outdoors, some people have never experienced these places. So how are they meant to know how you're meant to treat these places. So having a little look into the countryside code, and what you can do to do things responsibly, and then thinking about the Leave No Trace. So whatever you do, if you're carrying a picnic into the countryside, always make sure you take everything home, even your fruit and the banana skins or your apple cars, they take a long time to degrade even though you think they might be compostable to compose something, you've got to have a really specific environment, it doesn't just happen on the grasp on the verge. So taking everything home with you is really important. And then, especially at the moment, we're having a bit of a heatwave in the UK, thinking about your barbecues and your little fliers that you want to have, make sure they're raised up off the ground, make sure you're not doing it somewhere where it's Tinder dry, and a little spark could sit off the whole of the mall and next to you. And it doesn't take a lot. You don't need to be doing depths and depths of research about it. But just look at those basic key foundations that will help you enjoy the outdoors and keep it safe and pristine for everyone else.

India Pearson  22:16  
Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, once it's gone, it's gone. And that's that's really sad. And you know, hopefully, maybe in 10 years time, you'll be out of a job because all of us will listen to you. And it'll be wonderful.

Charlotte Ditchburn  22:31  
Then I'll start leading you, I'll guide you all around the country that Yeah, exactly.

India Pearson  22:34  
Yeah, I think it's really important. And, you know, I think that's a really good kind of, I guess, variation on that leave no traces to leave it better than you found it, because we've got a bit of catching up to do, I think with a lot in a lot of places. And so if you can just spend a little extra time and making it and picking up a little bit of extra evidence, think about your letter, somebody else listen to that as well.

Charlotte Ditchburn  23:04  
It's good, and it doesn't take much you picking up that one crisp packet or one bottle is gonna make a huge difference. If everyone does that, that's going to be hundreds of 1000s of bottles and crisp packets taken out of the countryside. So yeah, if everyone does their one little bit, it makes a huge, huge difference.

India Pearson  23:19  
Yeah, absolutely. So so obviously going back to your personal kind of adventures now. What, how do you kind of on a day to day basis, find mindfulness in nature, how do you use the access that we have in the UK to benefit your own mental health every day.

Charlotte Ditchburn  23:43  
So I'm definitely one for microadventures all the adventures between five and nine. So outside of work, and I think just local things can be as exciting as packing up your bags and going to Scotland or abroad or wherever you want to go and discovering those local gems that you might not know are there. So what I really enjoyed during lockdown was getting a map out checking within a three kilometre or five kilometre radius of your house and just go home walking every single one of the paths that are there. Yes, some of them are a bit obstructed and a bit overgrown. But there are actually some really beautiful treed avenues and Bluebell woods and all sorts that I discovered that I didn't even know existed within an hour's walk of my house. And that's the sort of thing I'm now starting to really enjoy is just exploring my home stomping ground and finding these new places. I've lived in the Lake District for 20 odd years. And there are places here that I still haven't been to and I haven't seen and I haven't explored so I'm really enjoying that side of things at the moment. And I find I often can get too busy. I can tell No, I just work the extra half hour but actually setting boundaries and saying no, I'm gonna go for a walk this evening or I'm going to go for a paddle before work in the morning. It makes a huge difference to how I feel during the day or how I feel that evening. It clears your head sets you up for the day. If you go for a paddle in the morning, there's no one else there. You can enjoy a sunrise, you can enjoy just a bit of peace and quiet. And then when you come back and you're trying to start off your day, whether it's going to work or being a mum or whatever, you can just de stress and reset at the start of the day. And at the end of the day, if you've had an awful day, I like to just put it all down, walk outside and just let nature take that all away from me. And then by the time I come home, whatever was bugging me when I left is totally gone.

India Pearson  25:28  
Yeah, Oh, totally. I think boundaries are so important, aren't they? Because you don't set them then this is life, it will run away with this without even realising you're going to enjoy this beautiful, beautiful country that we live in, actually. Okay, so final question for you looking back at the records you've made in your life, what are your biggest lessons that you've learned keeping your mind and body healthy.

Charlotte Ditchburn  25:55  
So the boundaries one is a big thing that I've learned over the years. Through university through work, I've done lots of volunteering. And I found myself kind of running away with what's next, what have I got to do and trying to keep up with the Instagram that idea of being productive all the time. And setting those boundaries has been a huge life lesson. And although I feel like people see the best side of everything, and I do feel like I've achieved a lot with advocating access, and I hope that I've changed a lot in the world for increasing access, I still think I need to put time into me and finding boundaries, from setting that aside and enjoying the outdoors rather than me going out and going for a paddleboard and going, Oh, I could I could talk about this in the next blog, or I could talk about this to the next article. It's about actually just taking that minute to enjoy it for what it is and enjoying the moment. And keeping my body healthy has been a challenge for me. At university, when I was going through our mental health issues, I really became a couch potato. And I can really fluctuate. If I get stressed, I ended up not moving and not doing a lot, which then ends up in the vicious cycle, you don't want to do anything and you go round and round. So finding time in the outdoors has really helped with the physical motivation to keep healthy and keep fit. And being in blue and green spaces has really helped me to develop that and make it a part of my weekly routine and keep on top of it.

India Pearson  27:23  
Yeah, no, that's Yeah, that's so so so true. And I just want to say thank you for being the advocate that you are, because you're doing it for all of us. And and I'm really appreciative of it. I really am. And so thank you so much. Well, thank you. Anybody wanted to follow your journey and sort of find out what you do recently asked calls? How can they

Charlotte Ditchburn  27:52  
so they can find me on Instagram at public rights of way Explorer. And you can also find my blog and articles on my website, which is proud explorer.com. And if anyone wants to ask any questions about access, find out a little bit more, feel free to get in touch with me on the website or on Instagram, and I'm more than happy to help you out with any access issues you've got.

India Pearson  28:11  
Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant. So great, because I think we don't know enough. And it might be when someone says I think I've got a public footpath going through my garden, what do I do? Or, you know, I

Charlotte Ditchburn  28:25  
I wouldn't know where to start. When I'm before I became right to weigh in the knowledge of it. I had no idea where to report things to or where to find out where this definitive map was or anything like that. So yeah, I'm here to point people in the right direction and give you a little bit of a voice if you need it to pass you on to the right people. Yeah,

India Pearson  28:43  
amazing. Well, you're absolutely star and you're doing so much for the environment. So thank you. And yeah, I'll put all your links and stuff onto the blurb that comes with a podcast so that anyone listening right now can can take a look and get in contact with you. But thanks so much. Charlotte's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today.

Charlotte Ditchburn  29:03  
Thanks so much for having me on. It's been lovely to speak to you, India.

India Pearson  29:07  
Thank you so much for listening to this episode for start a report podcast. If you liked what you heard, then please do write a review. It helps other like minded souls find this podcast too. And you want to get in touch and the best way to speak to me is probably via Instagram. And my handle is at with underscore India. Alright, take care and speak to you soon.