Doon Mackichan - from Emmy Award winner to passionate cold water swimmer

Doon Mackichan is a British actress, comedian and writer best known for  wroting and performing in the double Emmy award winning Smack the Pony. In her spare time Doon is a passionate cold water swimmer who has swam the English Channel  as part of a six-person relay team. Doon started a cold water swimming group in Hastings over lockdown saying ‘It’s not only good for the immune system but it banishes all anxieties – whether that’s fears for our health, our parents, our jobs, our homes or ourselves,”. Doon is now leading writing and swimming retreats in Scotland where first started wild swimming as a child. 

Book onto a swimming retreat with Doon - https://www.travelmatters.co.uk/loch-tay-wild-swimming-writing

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform 💙

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram  @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry ~ 

You can find this episode on iTunes, Spotify and many other podcast platform

If you have any questions or would like to suggest a guest please get in touch! You can email India via indiapearsonclarke@gmail.com or send a message via Instagram @india_outdoors / @finandflow / www.indiapearson.co.uk

~Music - Caleb Howard Almond / @oakandalmondcarpentry

Transcript

India Pearson  0:00  
Hello, I'm India and welcome to start a ripple the podcast that celebrates moving in nature. You see, I believe ripples are made when we connect movement with nature, not only for our mind and body, but also the environment too. And on this series I'm speaking to some amazing guests that share that passion. I have their own story to tell. All right, time to introduce this week's guest. Dude McKagan is a British actress, comedian and writer best known for writing and performing in a double Emmy award winning snack pony. In her spare time, Dune is a passionate cold water swimmer who was swam the English Channel as part of a six person relay team doing started a cold water swimming group in Hastings over lockdown, saying it's not only good for the immune system, but it banishes all anxieties, whether that's fear of our health, our parents, our jobs, our homes or ourselves. Dude is now leading writing and swimming retreats in Scotland where she first started whilst swimming as a child. It was absolute delight speaking to Dean about her lifelong relationship with cold water swimming. Make a start. So hi, dune. And welcome to the starter rebel podcast.

Doon Mackichan  1:11  
Hi, India. It's lovely to be here.

India Pearson  1:13  
It's great to have you and I've got a couple of questions for you that I'm excited to, to ask all about your adventures in particular wild swimming. But before we get onto them, I'd liked for you to kind of take yourself back and give us a bit of a brief description of how he came to where you are right now your background. And you know where it all began?

Doon Mackichan  1:40  
Well, I we moved up to Scotland when I was about 12. And we moved up to the middle of nowhere, but it was near a bay. So I used to go swimming with my dad in the North Sea. And I think that must have created the bug. Because he would drive down there after work through this down this park bumpy farm track. And he had an old jag and we just park it on the little bluff overlooking the sea and go in and be absolutely freezing and then come back, work the heat up. And I remember that feeling of like Wow, I feel amazing, invigorated, you know, was a bit strange. I had moved away from all my friends. I had an English accent in a Scottish school, I wasn't having the best time. And so it was like it was a really wonderful thing to do with my dad who was a very good swimmer. And when we moved back down south and we couldn't take the weather any longer. We he lived, they lived quite near a pool and outdoor pool, LIDAR. So we would go there quite a lot. So I sort of, I've never swam competitively. So I was never, I was never a school swimmer or anything like that. But I've always just loved a different passionate about water and getting into different types of water. But now I'm just obsessed with every type of body of water and getting in there and also teaching people how to get in safely to rivers and the sea. And yeah, I feel I was bitten by the bug really early. And really found water as a kind of saving, mentally saving grace. I think when my children were little, I was lucky enough to be a member. As a daughter of my dad's pool, which was the rec club in power mouth. We just got a beautiful sort of big, big pool. And then I joined tooting LiDAR, and was just swimming and met a girl there who was swimming the channel. And I wanted her to be in a play that I'd written. And I couldn't believe I just read this amazing book about a woman who wants to swim the channel. Her husband was her trainer. She was in New York. She trained all winter and summer and then the day before she was gonna fly, he got killed. So she decided to try and do the channel swim, flew all the way to Dover, and then realised she couldn't do it when she was on the beach. And I was obsessed with this book. And I met this this lovely young woman and it was a playwright at the time. And she I wanted her to be in my play. She said I can't be Edinburgh Festival. I can't swim the first weekend of August and swim in the channel. So I was like, Oh my God, I've just read a book about the channel, blah, blah. She said, Well, why don't you come along to the training sessions. And just for fun, so I joined their team, just train just swimming with them not to be part of the team. And my kids were very little at that time. And anyway, the long and short of it is one of their paratroopers got ill. So I ended up being on the team. So I ended up doing a channel relay swim. That in turn then got me into coal Have water, then I went to the Arctic the year later to do the world ice Swimming Championships. And I now just swim all year round. I feel safely I can swim. What was great about the Arctic is I thought, well, I can swim well, anywhere in the world now. And I really feel like I know, when my body's hypothermic when I'm pushing myself, when I'm shaking too much. I know about all the stages.

India Pearson  5:27  
So

Doon Mackichan  5:28  
now I just went for absolute pleasure. I've never been competitive, I didn't really care about my time in the channel, I just thought what an amazing thing to do. And I needed to help them out. Because their swimmer was suddenly ill. So yeah, that's how I ended up on the channel team.

India Pearson  5:45  
So it's, I mean, swimming has really been a huge part of your whole life. Yeah, it's not something that you've picked up later on. It's not something, you know, the use of dipped in and out of, quite literally, it's, it's really, you know, come on this life journey with you. And obviously, that's quite a lot that you were talking about, alongside being an actor and writer as well, which is a, you know, very, very all encompassing profession, as it is. How, obviously, swimming somewhere like like Antarctica, swimming in a channel, they all require a lot of training. How did you manage to fit that in amongst your career as a writer and an actor, you know, because it's not the type of job that you're in the same place. No time.

Doon Mackichan  6:35  
Oh, my God, one of the swims, I had to I was in training for the channel. And I was filming in Belfast. And the only place I could swim, I tried to go down to the estuary, and it was just full of rocks and huge ships, and I just couldn't get in. So I ended up in this tiny hotel pool, going round and round like a mad fish for an hour, because I had to swim an hour every day. And it was warm water. So I just fitted it in. But I mean, I don't know how I did it. But I used to get up at six every morning, my husband would get the kids up, I would go and have an early swim for an hour, this was training for the channel, in like April, May really building up my cold threshold. And then, and so I just made it part of my day, if I was rehearsing, I had to swimming before. If I was riding, I'd have to swim early. So I tend because kids pick up is 315, you haven't got much of a day, by the time you've done the shopping and the cleaning and, you know, whatever else, you just got to be very sort of time efficient. And also, I think I had a lot more energy than water does give you incredible energy. But to get up so early and go and swim for an hour in freezing cold water before I did a day's rehearsal and then add the kids. But I

India Pearson  7:50  
think that's key actually. And I own this with obviously I've only been around for the last four months. But if there's anything that I want to do for myself, sort of an physical state bid, swimming, paddleboarding, walking, whatever, I have to do it. First thing, yeah, the day runs away with you without realising even if you say, oh, yeah, later on, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for that swim. It doesn't happen unless I don't want to say get it out of the way. Because actually, often it can be the best part of your day. But you

Doon Mackichan  8:23  
can rely on it, do it? Yeah, you can really not want to do it, especially if you've been up all night with your baby. I mean, really discipline, but it pays off because you feel amazing after it. But yeah,

India Pearson  8:35  
you really do and prioritising it saying, first thing I do before I do anything else is get that swim done. And then you know that you can conquer the rest of the day without it playing on your mind and thinking, Oh, I've got to, I've got to get it in. But it

Doon Mackichan  8:51  
also creates the energy for the day. So it's colder. Because that energy that you need to get you through the day, especially as a young mom or young dad, you just, it helps you get through that day. And you can share that, especially when you can share the childcare. It's amazing. I mean, there's

India Pearson  9:06  
so many positives to cold water swimming. What what is it for you that that kind of makes you feel so alive? If you could kind of talk us through your what's going through your mind when you're about to enter that lake or sea or wherever it is that you're swimming in? Because it does it is a lot of mind over matter. And I know that sort of stops people from getting in the water in the first place. So if you could sort of talk us through your kind of mental state as you approach the water, and then afterwards,

Doon Mackichan  9:42  
I think what's amazing is that your body does everything. So we don't actually have to do that much. When we get to the water's edge. Your body is heating up your core. So just by looking at the sea, your body is doing everything. So it's almost like a like a mindfulness and it's a Yeah, it's like Have a meditation where you I just look at the sea and think yes, I'm going in. And then I love it. Obviously if I'm in a beautiful place that will tend to be at dawn or something of that if you're on the banks of Loch Lomond, I work a lot in Scotland. So I get to do some beautiful swims, I'll always find places that are right on the water. So I can go early in the morning ideally at like sun up, I think that's the most ambrosial time. So if I'm on my own, there's something really special about getting into water by myself. Obviously, I'm careful, I don't very go up much out of my depth of it's really, really cold. In case I get crammed, but I've so got to, you know, tooting LIDAR or Brockwell, all the places I have to swim in London thought I really don't want to get in is freezing, there's a slight rain. And that's the thing that's worth overcoming is, is really getting in when you don't want to and just going, Look, I'm not going to do 30 loans, but I'm going to do 10 So just you know. But I mean, I was very disciplined. In the old days, I felt like I had to swim, because I didn't feel like a good enough swimmer for the channel people. So I just thought, I've got to get my stroke, you know, got to be a bit faster. So it's different for every body of water. I don't particularly like swimming indoors. Now I don't like the smell of chlorine, I become very sort of like, oh, I don't think I can bear to go to the local bath. But then you don't do very long swims and winter. So you're not getting your fitness through swimming. You're just getting the amazing feeling.

India Pearson  11:39  
And that amazing, you know, feeling and all the benefits that it does for your your mental well being as well. But I know that you describe cold watering as a mental health

Doon Mackichan  11:50  
game changer. Oh, completely. So yeah, about this. Well, I just feel passionate about the fact that I didn't realise that it was happening. But every day that I was training in cold water, I was coping a bit better with stuff that was happening at home with family issues. My son got cancer when he was very young. It was horrific sort of two years of of hell for all of us. But I would as much as I could get to the pool, and I had a baby and a 10 year old girl, I would get to the pool, someone would hold the baby and I would just have to go in for even like two lengths to be able to go into the cancer or just be able to cope with the day. So that was amazing. I thought wow, this is literally saving me from being able to deal with something I never thought I'd have to have on my plate. And he's fine now. And in fact, I've just had a walk with Him. And then I think I became quite addicted to that need to keep on top of things when you know things slightly unravelling things go you know, you don't expect to be in this story that we didn't think was going to be your story, but it is suddenly. So the water just became a complete healer and transforming thing and whenever I so I love locks, and I love rivers, but then bit more dangerous. So it's about finding out how to swim in those safe. Yeah, like teaching people how to get into the water is the simplest thing. And once you've taught people how to get in safely, that you can change people's lives, because they realise how good they feel. So in the pandemic, it was pissing with rain. A friend of mine, we decided we'd like you said, let's do this every morning. Let's just go in whatever. At nine o'clock. We didn't have the kids around at that point score. I never will kids were at home that you know homeschooling. So we started going down whatever the weather to the fisherman's beach in Hastings. And then someone would walk across the beach and go, Oh, what are you doing? We go, we're going and it's now 104 people. And yesterday there was six of us. I haven't been because I've been living in London. But sometimes there's 20 Sometimes there's two. I love it. And it's at the same time. But now the WhatsApp groups become Can anyone go at eight? Someone wants to go at four. So it's really sort of one of those annoying WhatsApp groups has turned into 1000 conversations. So I exited the group. I was like, I'm doing it at nine. Okay, I'll see you there. I don't want to talk about neoprene boots. And can you swim at half nine so it's a bit sort of larious dune has exited the group

India Pearson  14:38  
created the birds

Doon Mackichan  14:41  
that's the routine come rain or shine but obviously very careful with the tides and if you know if it's if the tide is changing or going out coming in and it's dodgy, we won't get in. There's quite a few old ladies who have joined us old ladies and say ladies in the mid 70s and above. I'm an old lady but it's it's so Wonderful to get people in then they feel so empowered. The sweet lady was like, I'm so grateful for this. This is amazing. I never would have gone in. And I think I think

India Pearson  15:09  
finding that community is key actually. Yeah. It makes you accountable if you've got a buddy going in with you. Yeah, they're gonna meet someone at nine. Then there's enough to go.

Doon Mackichan  15:21  
Yeah, you have to go. So

India Pearson  15:23  
they're looking out for each other, which is yeah, no safety is

Doon Mackichan  15:26  
Yeah, holding hands walking in over the rocks, you know, because some people aren't used to the rocks. I didn't know what it's like when your beach boots quite Peverley. It's pebbles. Yeah, it goes. So I love the fact that I've met so many different people. A lot of young moms obviously really struggling the pandemic, just able to get out for like 15 minutes, running out the house, getting in the sea with us, seeing everybody just smiling, screaming, making a noise, we'd often have a bit of dance in the carpark. Turn the cars or you know, that amazing feeling you have at the end, where you're just Hi, we just come and have a dance in the car park even in the rain. And then I'll just go back home by half, nine. getting on with your day. But feeling transformed

India Pearson  16:10  
to feeling like you have superpowers.

Doon Mackichan  16:13  
Yeah. I would say three times as much energy than twice probably. Yeah. And that's

India Pearson  16:19  
what's incredible. And so, you know, did you find? Did you find it quite humbling that suddenly, you were sort of encouraging others to share this passion of yours. And sort of, I'm guessing a lot of these people came with their own stories to why they wanted to. Yeah,

Doon Mackichan  16:41  
I mean, there's a lot of people I haven't I don't know that well, because I only did it for September, October, November, December, January. I only did it for six months. And then I moved back to London. And they kept on going which was brilliant. Through the hardest months, which is February, March, April, you know, the really bitter days on the beach when it's snowing, and they all kept going. Which, and most of them a lot of them. It was their first year of going through the there were a few hardcore swimmers. There were six or seven people who were used to swimming and some very good swimmers. So they would just come down and sometimes on the weekends and go a bit further. But we're without wetsuits. So we're the wouls. So people are like, Oh, I've got some gloves in my allowed you like yeah, of course you're allowed. You know, we just don't want the full wetsuit. You know, I love the benefit. Yeah, with the whales.

India Pearson  17:31  
Yeah. And you don't feel the benefit with if you've covered a neoprene Do you think

Doon Mackichan  17:35  
you don't you? I mean, I've gotten that the jury's out. I've got other friends you go into a lake, and it's bitterly cold lakes colder than the sea. And they all weather wetsuits, and they stay in like 15 minutes, and they still feel good when they get out. So it's not the end of the world to wear a wetsuit. I just, I've been I've worn wet suits for long swims, and then it's when the wetsuit comes off, then you feel the joy of the water on your skin, and that tingling feeling and I think it's better for your circulation. I become obsessed with the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is worth looking at, but it's it's one of the best ways to exercise it is through exposure to cold and it's the nerve that keeps us happy. It's it secretes serotonin and dopamine, it goes right through the lungs and the heart and other ways to exercise it are meditating chanting, and everyday micro communications with people with strangers, not family. That's why pandemic was so hard saying hi to the postman saying hi to people going onto the beach and waving at 30 women. It makes you feel brilliant. You know, that's, that's the vagus nerve is being completely exercised. And that keeps us happy. And that's part of cold as well. The cold water does fascinate

India Pearson  18:53  
I didn't know that at all I've kind of knew about was how it releases endorphins. He's obviously the happy hormone. But no, that's really interesting. And I guess, swimming in a community that you created. checks all those boxes, you'll see it like you say you're saying hello, you're having these.

Doon Mackichan  19:11  
Singing when you're screaming in the water screaming I encourage a lot of swearing and shouting. Oh, absolutely. But it's so good to let your voice you know really be loud, which you can do on a beach.

India Pearson  19:24  
It's a sense of release at the same time. And yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now, I know that you've been sort of every now and again throughout our conversation today. You've been mentioning Scotland and locks. And yeah, you're hosting a wild swimming and writing retreat on the loch Tay in September. Yes, sounds very exciting.

Doon Mackichan  19:47  
Anymore rooms left. But they've got to be shared by friends. You have to come with your friend or your partner. It's the most fantastic place. Well after setting up the wells, and realising what a completely Game Changer it was for a lot of women, I just thought I want to do this and make a bit of money out and like, try and make a bit of money out of it a little bit of money out of it, but also introduce it to a lot of people that they can then spread it. So it's I think it's the 26th of September. I think God, I didn't know any of the details about how to find out about it. I think this through travel matters. You will link or you can do all that. Okay, well, yeah. My friend is a travel agent. We linked up she did all she does all the, you know? What do they call the like, the whiteboards or all the spreadsheets and all the stuff I couldn't do. So she found this amazing lodge on the banks of Loch Tay. So we actually do two swims a day, and we and we facilitate a writing but it's only two hours a day, then the afternoons are free to do what you want. It's the most perfect day because you're swimming early. With an amazing chef. The rooms are beautiful. You get to be quiet between 10 and 12. Like long handwriting, no screens or laptops, or phones. So it's like an amazing detox to see your own handwriting. The flow of the water goes into the flow of the writing. And then people got the afternoon off and then we go in again at five in the most idyllic countryside. Amazing. Yeah, we're trying to get funding to make it a bit cheaper for people, you know, who really really need it because we have one place that we went to an NHS nurse, so everyone put in money for that as your bursary place. So yes, we've got a couple of Yeah, I think three rooms three, but it's absolutely it's only four nights, but it's the most wonderful, immersive, moving transforming time. And,

India Pearson  21:51  
and is such a wild place. I was there this summer. Oh, great doing a road trip. And in our campervan. So we were wild camping, we were wild swimming, you know. And it's, it's another wild up there. And it's such a bomb for the senses. You know, the views are out of this world. Smells. Nature is all encompassing there. Yeah. I can imagine being on a retreat. They're being very therapeutic, actually. space away from this busy world where technology rules the roost. Yeah, it sounds like the perfect

Doon Mackichan  22:35  
it kind of is I'd like to do. I'd like to do them all the time. Because I just think it's, it's a gift. And I also love it. But also it's great to see people getting confident in the water. Some people who just wanted to come you don't have to do any of it. You don't have to write or swim, you can just go and hang out. But you end up with the power of the group getting in because I would say 80% of people hadn't Swan part past August or, I mean, this is September. So it's still it's not freezing. But it's bracing.

India Pearson  23:08  
That's quite a good time because the water would have warmed up throughout the summer. Yeah. So it's probably the warmest. I mean, it's still Scottish waters. But it's the warm is it's going to be throughout the year. So if you're new to

Doon Mackichan  23:23  
Colorado in freezing, you see the thing is that's hard and people go Could I come in now? And you go well, it's cold now. You could start now April. But you know, you can't really start in February or January. It's best to keep going from a summer through because it only drops to by one degree a week, doesn't it?

India Pearson  23:43  
Yeah. I mean lakes, they drop quicker. They warm up quicker than the sea. Yeah, they also drop quicker than that. So, you know, finding that optimum time of the year is yes. See? And actually I'd say yeah, sort of August September is the best time Yeah,

Doon Mackichan  24:01  
we could we it was it was the house was free in October and then in March, I was like no, I'm not. I don't want it to be a miserable experience. I want people to genuinely not be freezing for like the next you know, sometimes it takes you hours to warm up is sort of not I've swam in some locks in Scotland where I literally thought that shouldn't I shouldn't have done that. That's that's some kind of mythic cold. I've never

India Pearson  24:24  
experienced the women who swam in Antarctica.

Doon Mackichan  24:26  
I never actually Knoxville about the dark PT lost with the stag standing on the top of the cliffs. And it's so yours right? Scotland is so wild. You know, we've been offered other venues where we're like, No, we have to be in Scotland.

India Pearson  24:41  
And I imagine wonderful for you to go back to where it all began. Yeah, we're 12 year old girl. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Coming full circle and teaching other people to experience while swimming and feel the joy and what's your

Doon Mackichan  24:59  
Hey hon wetsuits Do you feel that you go in in wet suits or like,

India Pearson  25:05  
show I have been going in wet suits this year? Because I, because I was my had my daughter in December. Yeah. heavily pregnant for that bit and I just want to do it. So then it means it's meant that I've only just started going in the last couple of months. Yeah, I haven't. My body hasn't been used to it. No, I've seen wet suiting up. I've been what I've been doing is wet suits without gloves and boots. Whereas normally I do skins with gloves and boots. Yeah, yeah. So have you tried to kind of, yeah, bounce out that way. But my plan is to as it gets a bit warmer, take the wet suit off, and then just do it in skin. I

Doon Mackichan  25:48  
wonder what that does to your milk?

India Pearson  25:50  
Well, I know but there isn't though, I did have to look at some research and was very mixed. It was very mixed views. Actually, some people saying it was positive. Some people say you know it all dried up during that time. But obviously at the moment, I'm only going in for a quick dip, because that's for as well.

Doon Mackichan  26:08  
I'd be really interested to know whether it affects breast milk. But anyway, it's interesting,

India Pearson  26:14  
but it definitely makes me feel like me, which you know, new money can very quickly get lost. And for me just connecting to the ocean is key. So, yeah, I love paddleboarding. But there's a lot more that comes up paddleboarding pumpkin or making it out to the water. Whereas swimming, I can just leave my daughter with my partner go, I'm just nipping out for a five minute dip and colour. And it's very doable. But I do I do think though, with with skins on wet suits. If it gets you in the water, yeah, do it if you need to agree in a winter wetsuit with all the gloves that are the boots, you do it and then go from there. You know, you don't have to start in No, we

Doon Mackichan  27:01  
had a we had some people wearing those neoprene swimming costumes. Well, and some people in short is. But honestly, what was amazing was pretty soon they dumped them because it was such a fast on the way. So if it's raining, you're like, Oh, fuck. So just be like, let's just get in and out. You know, you could literally be you can just go up to your shoulders and do five, I would always just say to people go in, just do five brush strokes. And that's it. Absolutely. I have cold showers first, have it on your back, put it on the back of your neck first and then turn around if you feel that's a really good way of starting.

India Pearson  27:35  
And I can have a cup of tea afterwards.

Doon Mackichan  27:38  
Got a warm up, warm up your core. Yeah, yeah, afterwards,

India Pearson  27:42  
and those changing robes you get now amazing, you know, they'd like a big hug when you sort of put them around you and they're fleeced and everything, so

Doon Mackichan  27:50  
Oh, fantastic. And it can be quite dangerous to shower straight after. So although that feels amazing. It's very good to heat up your core with a cup of tea and then have a shower like an hour later. But you're still a bit free is still a bit cold, but you're not tingly. Yeah, you're not like numb when the warm water hits you.

India Pearson  28:12  
Do what you said used to do when your time is I'll just get in the car and heat it up and pretend it

Doon Mackichan  28:17  
I mean, I used to shake and the first training for the channel. I used to literally shake for about 45 minutes, like really badly. I thought and I didn't really know, I thought that was normal. I was just getting too. I've seen too many lengths. So I always encourage people to get out pretty quickly if they're well at the beginning. Yeah, you don't you don't need to stay in ages. It's not like you're not trying to prove and you'll feel as good.

India Pearson  28:42  
Absolutely. Just pay pacing it. Okay, so I've got a final question for you, which I want my guests. And this is looking back at the ripples you have made in your life? What are the biggest lessons you have learned to keeping your mind and body healthy?

Doon Mackichan  29:00  
Wow. Well, I mean, goodwill to all men is a very good thing. You know, if you starting feeling if you're starting getting paranoid about who doesn't like you, and you, who's you know, because I get so much rejection through being an actor. And there's a lot of anger that comes with that. Who the hell do you think you are? You're not. And so I think just the general goodwill was everyone's in the same boat, everyone's struggling. Everyone's got their sufferings on a sliding scale. When my son got LA's, I think I've got the red card. Don't tell me about your love conversion. I don't want to hear it because my story is worse. But there's always someone with a worse story than you. So it's about that compassion to for everyone's stories. And how do we live with joy? I mean, nature, water, compassion, all those things. I didn't really care what people think about me that's really nice to have be at that stage. You know, I'm not on any social media. I'm very technical. I think that is is a good thing for the mind. I'm not on any, but I don't even have a laptop. So it takes me forever to write longhand. So I'm writing a book. So that would be quite inspiring for people because that's about the pressures of being a mom and a woman in the business. And how I've had to keep calling it out, keep saying, Sorry, my baby's here, I need to come with my baby. I need some money for childcare. No, I can't do that job on Thursday. That's, so you got to be quite bolshy to, to get where you are as a woman still. But I think being able to divide your time up, like if you're working too hard, and you have too much of an idea of what you want for yourself. That's just gonna drive you mad. Because there's always going to be obstacles in the way. So it's best just to sort of enjoy the journey. And I suppose having a bit of bad luck with my son, even though he's alive now that that time just made me so grateful that they're all alive. There's a sort of that's the business. I don't care if I own my house, or I haven't got any money. I don't really care about any of that. It because it because you've gone through the as a lot of people have something that's made you go. Other things are important.

India Pearson  31:15  
Yeah. And it's being, I guess, present in the moment. Yeah. Whatever it whatever life is bringing you.

Doon Mackichan  31:24  
And also the most mindful thing you can possibly do is get into cold water. Because there's no way you can think about anything else. For that minute that you're going in. And in a way that just blast everything out all the silly chat or the morning dreads or the anxieties, like a cobweb I just gone. And then you can get on with your day. Without the monkey mind chat. It's very, it's very hard to live mindfully. There's a lot of distractions, there's a lot of information. So yeah, prepare to be interrupted. But for the right things, not the wrong.

India Pearson  32:01  
Absolutely. I will thank you so much. Don't know I can definitely, definitely understand everything that you're saying right there. And I think, yeah, that's what I think once people find wild swimming and cold water, swimming, that mindful experience that being totally present totally in the now for that moment in the water is what pulls them back and is quite becomes very addictive, actually.

Doon Mackichan  32:27  
So yeah, yes, I tried to I mean, I wasn't able to go in for like a lot of the December January time, because I was not very well. And then I couldn't get it. I couldn't I didn't dare swim because I was filming. Then I went to see my daughter, daughter, so I literally hadn't been in since December. And I got in like last week. So sometimes you have to have breaks and I was like God, I'm feeling depressed. For the first time in my life, I actually feel because I realised how much is given me i i felt just a bit flat. Because I'm not a gym bunny, I take the dog for a walk, I'd look at the lovely trees and go Allah Allah Allah lives great, but I didn't feel that, ah, and ready for the day feel that the cold water gives me the joy really. So you don't have to pressure yourself to do it all the time. But it's a brilliant thing to know how to do.

India Pearson  33:22  
It is also amazing that you are encouraging others to do the same. And feel the same way. You know, we're both your group in Hastings and also with your retreats too. So I wish you all the best for those retreats. Exciting. I will put all the details on how you can book. Thank you The blurb. Yeah. And also good luck with your book that you're writing because that's

Doon Mackichan  33:46  
very much and so great that you're a young mom and doing this and getting in the water is bloody brilliant.

India Pearson  33:55  
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of a start a report podcast. If you liked what you heard, then please do write a review. It helps other like minded souls find this podcast too. If you want to get in touch and the best way to speak to me is probably via Instagram. And my handle is at with underscore India. All right, take care and speak to you soon.